Chris Grier & the Multitrade of Madness

[TheKillerNacho]

On 3/26/2021 at 9:18 PM, Deadeye said:

I kind of wish we didn't trade with Philly.  I liked where we were after the SF trade, lots of extra picks including extra firsts in 2022 and 2023.

me too but i trust the FO

Obviously, they really covet a guy they completely expect will be available at 6 but has no chance to last until 12. That considering our needs should limit our likely first pickt o like three individuals. I'll let you guys work that out.

[mountainpd]

I look at the two trades as one.

I like the idea of staying in the top 10 and I think flexibility on selection is still at forefront of mind.

I would bet against flipping pick 6 to Panthers or Broncos and getting a 2nd rounder from them this year or dare I say it maybe even a first next year should the QB they like be on the board, 

Im guessing they have similar grades to all three wide outs and could even be targeting someone completely different than the 5 being suggested. I like it overall and as you guys mentioned have more faith in the front office than I have had for a long time.

[Phinsesq]

5 hours ago, mountainpd said:

I look at the two trades as one.

I like the idea of staying in the top 10 and I think flexibility on selection is still at forefront of mind.

I would bet against flipping pick 6 to Panthers or Broncos and getting a 2nd rounder from them this year or dare I say it maybe even a first next year should the QB they like be on the board, 

Im guessing they have similar grades to all three wide outs and could even be targeting someone completely different than the 5 being suggested. I like it overall and as you guys mentioned have more faith in the front office than I have had for a long time.

If it nets us an extra one in a future draft or 2- 2s I can see them easily dropping back to 8 or 9 and grabbing a top tier Edge or LB then addressing WR  at 18  or the top of Round 2 in this deep WR draft. 

[hrubes20]

I've been pondering over these trades over the weekend.  In a vacuum, getting a 1st, 3rd, and 5th round pick to drop down 3 spots in the 1st round and a 4th round pick is good business.  The value is absolutely there, even if the picks are future ones.  That's how you sustain success.

The deal with the 49ers was obviously terrific.  Loads of value, and I loved that one from the start.  The Philly trade made me scratch my head a bit, though.  Why didn't Grier wait until draft day to see how things shook out, instead of trading away one of those 1st rounders? Why did he seemingly give up so much value just to get back to 6? But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that Grier has someone particular in mind who should be available at 6, but would very easily have been a target of the Eagles themselves.  They do look like a team in need of receiving weapons.  

Jags - Lawrence

Jets - Wilson/Fields

Niners - Wilson/Fields/Mac Jones

Falcons - Not gonna take a WR

Bengals - Could take Chase due to Burrow/Chase LSU connection, but they really would be stupid to not take Sewell if available.

That leaves Grier with taking his guy at 6.  No settling for the guy they have ranked #2 or #3.  They get the pick of the litter (according to them). I applaud the confidence they have in their own evaluations to go and "get their guy".  Now it just remains to be seen if the confidence in their evaulations are correct or not.  

[Phinsesq]

29 minutes ago, hrubes20 said:

I've been pondering over these trades over the weekend.  In a vacuum, getting a 1st, 3rd, and 5th round pick to drop down 3 spots in the 1st round and a 4th round pick is good business.  The value is absolutely there, even if the picks are future ones.  That's how you sustain success.

The deal with the 49ers was obviously terrific.  Loads of value, and I loved that one from the start.  The Philly trade made me scratch my head a bit, though.  Why didn't Grier wait until draft day to see how things shook out, instead of trading away one of those 1st rounders? Why did he seemingly give up so much value just to get back to 6? But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that Grier has someone particular in mind who should be available at 6, but would very easily have been a target of the Eagles themselves.  They do look like a team in need of receiving weapons.  

Jags - Lawrence

Jets - Wilson/Fields

Niners - Wilson/Fields/Mac Jones

Falcons - Not gonna take a WR

Bengals - Could take Chase due to Burrow/Chase LSU connection, but they really would be stupid to not take Sewell if available.

That leaves Grier with taking his guy at 6.  No settling for the guy they have ranked #2 or #3.  They get the pick of the litter (according to them). I applaud the confidence they have in their own evaluations to go and "get their guy".  Now it just remains to be seen if the confidence in their evaulations are correct or not.  

I think they realized if they had waited till draft night, the cost of the trade would have increased due to other interested parties. I think Miami is interested in Chase/Pitts/Sewell and it is a pretty good bet one or more of the three is there and picked up an extra 1st and 3rd for the calculated risk. Though it wouldn't shock me if there is another trade back by Miami (or Atlanta) depending on how the draft unfolds. 

The Eagles have a need at WR and picked up a first round pick and will likely still have a shot at one of the big 4 Chase/Smith/Waddle/Pitts as well. Not a bad deal for either side. 

I agree on the Bengals taking Sewell. If your QB is coming off a major injury and is the future of the franchise you better invest in protecting him. It is the Bengals though, so you never know. I do think they will stick at 5 regardless.  

 

[Rgossett07]

Anyone else worried about Grier's ability to hit on 1st rounders?  I think his strong suit is maneuvering the board but I can't say he is great at decision making in the 1st round.

2016 - Tunsil.  No brainer. They even admitted they never in a million years thought he would fall to them on draft night. 

2017 - C. Harris.  Absolute BUST!

2018 - Fitzpatrick.  Great Pick.  Unfortunately Fitzpatrick whined his way out of Miami.  But ill give Grier credit for this.  

2019 - Wilkins. Solid but not a perennial Pro Bowl type player. Ill give him a hit on this pick.

2020 - Tua.  Flores and Grier wanted Herbert.  Ross wanted Tua.  Jury is still out.  But I believe this will be considered a hit.

Jackson. Eh.  Didn't love this pick when it happened.  I think he will be solid but not a dominant LT in the league.  Hope I'm wrong.  Need based pick.

Igbonagane. Never understood it.  Never will.  Got outplayed by undrafted FA's last year.  It was either Grier or Flo that fell in love with him. 

Where Grier has done some damage is the 2nd round (Gesecki, Baker, R. Davis, Hunt)

I just get the feeling we are going to be scratching our heads at pick #18 and #36.  

 

[Tetsujin]

7 minutes ago, Rgossett07 said:

Anyone else worried about Grier's ability to hit on 1st rounders?  I think his strong suit is maneuvering the board but I can't say he is great at decision making in the 1st round.

I think Year 2 of the rebuild last draft allowed Grier to take raw prospects, hoping after a couple of years they’d be worth it (and better players than their peers). Igby and Jackson were the youngest and 3rd youngest players in the NFL last season, with no traditional offseason.

[Phinsesq]

2 minutes ago, Tetsujin said:

I think Year 2 of the rebuild last draft allowed Grier to take raw prospects, hoping after a couple of years they’d be worth it (and better players than their peers). Igby and Jackson were the youngest and 3rd youngest players in the NFL last season, with no traditional offseason.

With Fitzpatrick at least they recouped the pick and at the time they made the trade it looked like the Steelers were well on their way to a top 5 selection. 

That 2017 draft with Harris was abysmal. Otherwise I think his drafts over all have been solid. I liked, and still do, the Wilkins pick. I was so back an forth between Tua and Herbert I can't fault them for the way they went, and even in that regard that book is still being written. Herbert had a lot of weapons at his disposal, there is no "Keenan Allen" on the Dolphins roster. Credit where credit is due though Herbert made a ton of plays for SD. Bottom line I am fine with Tua I liked what I saw I think he can be a franchise QB for Miami. 

The Tunsil trade was great for reasons beyond Miami's control.  As noted in my take on Fitzpatrick at the time I would have thought we would be more likely to use the Steelers pick at 3 as opposed a Deshaun Watson led Houston Team with Deandre Hopkins still on it. So to be fair I think we kind of lucked into this gift that keeps on giving. They have the stones to make the moves though, and that is what provides the opportunity for these things to happen.  

[hrubes20]

22 hours ago, Rgossett07 said:

Anyone else worried about Grier's ability to hit on 1st rounders?  I think his strong suit is maneuvering the board but I can't say he is great at decision making in the 1st round.

2016 - Tunsil.  No brainer. They even admitted they never in a million years thought he would fall to them on draft night. 

2017 - C. Harris.  Absolute BUST!

2018 - Fitzpatrick.  Great Pick.  Unfortunately Fitzpatrick whined his way out of Miami.  But ill give Grier credit for this.  

2019 - Wilkins. Solid but not a perennial Pro Bowl type player. Ill give him a hit on this pick.

2020 - Tua.  Flores and Grier wanted Herbert.  Ross wanted Tua.  Jury is still out.  But I believe this will be considered a hit.

Jackson. Eh.  Didn't love this pick when it happened.  I think he will be solid but not a dominant LT in the league.  Hope I'm wrong.  Need based pick.

Igbonagane. Never understood it.  Never will.  Got outplayed by undrafted FA's last year.  It was either Grier or Flo that fell in love with him. 

Where Grier has done some damage is the 2nd round (Gesecki, Baker, R. Davis, Hunt)

I just get the feeling we are going to be scratching our heads at pick #18 and #36.  

 

The only bust I see there is Charles Harris, which was a terrible pick the moment it was made.  Grier absolutely went for need over BPA and it bit him hard. 

I'm probably the high guy here on Igbinoghene.  Youngest player in the league last year and didn't have a preseason.  But he's crazy athletic and has shut down some great WRs.  I can't remember which one of the Bama WRs said it (DeVonta Smith?) but they said he was the best CB they faced in college.  I expect Igbinoghene to make a big jump this year.  He's shorter than him, but he reminds me a bit of Nnamdi Asomugha for the Raiders who took a year or two to get up to speed.

[Deadeye]

On 3/30/2021 at 11:32 AM, hrubes20 said:

The only bust I see there is Charles Harris, which was a terrible pick the moment it was made.  Grier absolutely went for need over BPA and it bit him hard. 

I'm probably the high guy here on Igbinoghene.  Youngest player in the league last year and didn't have a preseason.  But he's crazy athletic and has shut down some great WRs.  I can't remember which one of the Bama WRs said it (DeVonta Smith?) but they said he was the best CB they faced in college.  I expect Igbinoghene to make a big jump this year.  He's shorter than him, but he reminds me a bit of Nnamdi Asomugha for the Raiders who took a year or two to get up to speed.

Did our HC have a say in the pick?

[Phinsesq]

If Pitts is there at 6 Miami is taking him. I can't fault Miami for the value they received for the 3 pick but they were all but assured to get him if they wanted him at 3. I believe Chase is number 2 on their list and my only gripe if they draft Chase. "he isn't Pitts". 

  

[Swampbilly]

I don’t see Pitts or Chase being available at pick 6.  I think Atlanta will go Pitts and Bengals will go Chase and look for an OT in round 2.

I think we moved down to 6 because we want Smith and the way the draft plays out is;

Lawrence

Wilson

Fields / Mac Jones

Pitts

Chase

Smith

Obviously the only mystery here is will Atlanta trade back?  Denver would be the most likely candidate to trade up for a QB with Atlanta IMO, but I think ultimately Atlanta stays put and takes Pitts.

[Deadeye]

I stand by my belief that Waddle is the better pick over Smith. And believe me, I know how great Smith is.  But Waddle has the best chance to be Tyreek Hill v2.  And that is what the offense needs most IMO.

[Swampbilly]

13 hours ago, Deadeye said:

I stand by my belief that Waddle is the better pick over Smith. And believe me, I know how great Smith is.  But Waddle has the best chance to be Tyreek Hill v2.  And that is what the offense needs most IMO.

No issue from me with the above statement.  Which player will have the more productive career will come down to health and offensive system, so right now it could go either way IMO.

[mountainpd]

13 hours ago, Swampbilly said:

I don’t see Pitts or Chase being available at pick 6.  I think Atlanta will go Pitts and Bengals will go Chase and look for an OT in round 2.

I think we moved down to 6 because we want Smith and the way the draft plays out is;

Lawrence

Wilson

Fields / Mac Jones

Pitts

Chase

Smith

Obviously the only mystery here is will Atlanta trade back?  Denver would be the most likely candidate to trade up for a QB with Atlanta IMO, but I think ultimately Atlanta stays put and takes Pitts.

I agree we could do with Atlanta trading back with Carolina with them selecting Lance.