3rd Overall Pick - Trey Lance vs Justin Fields (with bonus third poll option)

[NcFinest9erFan]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

I'm torn between massive respect for them sticking to their guns and frustration in dealing with people who simply don't accept possibilities 😂

I still give it a slim chance but it's growing on me that I may just need to realize that draft night could suck.

 

[Motion]

This is like the Tiger King of draft picks. Complete **** show that makes no sense and wouldn't be so interesting if people had something to do

[XScutterX]

 

[Forge]

Damn... Lance down to +275 lol. He almost has the same odds as fields

[Ftn49]

3 hours ago, straighthate said:

Not sure what you’re implying by “old thinking” but for me it’s that I watched every snap this year of both QBs and felt like Mac always led his receiver perfectly. No hesitation from the receiver, like a baton was handed to them and they just kept going in stride. Didn’t see the same with Fields, although his accuracy was very good, particularly on deep balls. My problem with him is mainly pocket presence and I see a ton of third down sacks in his future. It’s the single most frustrating thing for me when watching Jimmy or Kap before him. When you want the QB to just take a step forward or to the side to avoid the rush and they move the wrong way right into the sack. That’s what I saw from Fields that I didn’t see at all from Mac. One of the best I can remember coming out of college at subtle moves, arm fakes, whatever to get an extra split second the receiver to get open. 

I wasn't trying to imply anything nafarious.

More along the lines of if this situation had happened 10 years ago I would be pushing for Mac honestly. Pretty much everyone who posts in this forum I think just wants the Qb who will do the best for the niners, even the pro Mac ones with no ulterior motivation. Qb and passing game development in general has expanded exponentially in the past 20 years in the lower levels of play. 20 years ago the best athletes on the field were the best athletes and they didn't get any teaching/coaching to refine their craft. If you've read Steve Youngs book it was the same for him. He didn't learn how to pass until he stood watching Jim McMahon during BYU practices. The advent of qb camps and things of that nature have helped tremendously. 

To make the long story short the past accuracy concerns of athletic qbs have long since left my concerns but I can understand how they wouldn't have for everyone but as you've posted that doesn't seem to be your concern.

[oldman9er]

25 minutes ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

I still give it a slim chance but it's growing on me that I may just need to realize that draft night could suck.

 

I'm learning that it feels better to ignore all draft and prospect scrutiny until after the draft. This way, you are delightfully indifferent and at peace with such things completely out of your control. 

[Psychlone]

1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

I think I'm going to end up having Fields with the highest percentage soon as well. Hate how I can't just stick with Lance lol. 

So if Fields or Lance are the pick, how will these guys spin it? "Jones was the front-runner but Kyle changed his mind late in the process" lol. 

Most others have flipped their projections multiple times a week including me so kudos to you so far!

[Ronnie's Pinky]

3 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

I'm learning that it feels better to ignore all draft and prospect scrutiny until after the draft. This way, you are delightfully indifferent and at peace with such things completely out of your control.

Pre-draft talk is both mind-numbingly stupid, and very hard to ignore. I wish I had your self-control, sir.

[J-ALL-DAY]

3 minutes ago, Psychlone said:

Most others have flipped their projections multiple times a week including me so kudos to you so far!

Oh, it's been tempting but my top two choices aren't going to change. It's just I wish I was more confident in my Lance pick. I thought I was last Sunday, but then somehow all the Fields talk just disappeared and now I'm super suspicious lol. 

[big9erfan]

4 hours ago, straighthate said:

I keep changing my mind on who I think it’ll be. Still believe Mac is the best of them but I see the appeal of a more mobile guy with a cannon like the other two. Maybe it’s just my preference on offensive style, but I think a guy who can get it to the receivers in stride is the most important thing. Let the weapons be the highlight reel, not the QB with his legs. One step in the pocket that buys a split second can be the difference of a 20 yard pass play vs a QB who’s on the highlight reel because of a 10 yard run. 
 

 

People seem to think that because Fields can run that he can't pass. But he is not that runner posing as a QB you often see. He would be a great QB if he never ran a single time. His highlight reel does not need to contain runs to still show a QB with exceptional NFL passing skills. And he does hit receivers in stride as well as anyone, at least beyond the los. What's more when it comes to protecting the ball he is exceptional at putting in a position where only his receiver has a play on it. He is also superb on crossing routes of putting it in a spot where his receiver won't get laid out. He is not at all a "running QB" or a "run first" QB. He mostly does that when a play breaks down or when there's running play called. That's in addition to his great passing skills, not instead of. Oh, and when he does see an open field and takes off, it's not a 10-yard highlight it's often 25, 30 or more. Nobody needs a QB that runs a 4.4 forty, but it sure is nice on those runs where he does take off

[big9erfan]

4 hours ago, straighthate said:

Because from what I see, the physical attributes are much better (stronger arm, legs) from those two. The “potential” is better.  But from the eye test, Mac looks to me like a much better QB than the two of them. Way better than Lance and slightly better than Fields. I value accuracy and vision and pocket presence as the absolute must haves in a QB. Legs and a big arm are nice to haves but not a must. 

Again, just check out the many analyses out there that break down Fields plays. There are plenty of plays showing him moving up, moving sideways, or just using his strength to shake guys off while remaining in the pocket. Maybe Jones is better. Hard to tell because according to an analysis I've seen of QBs this year he was either the least under pressure, or near least under pressure, of all QBs. But if you value accuracy, vision and pocket awareness  then Fields needs to be on your list. 

Not trying to talk you out of Jones if you love him. Just trying to clarfy that it sounds like you do because you think Fields is more of a runner, or move in the pocket and still find guys. I think those are misconceptions about him that have somehow just gotten way out of control this year.

[N4L]

26 minutes ago, Forge said:

Damn... Lance down to +275 lol. He almost has the same odds as fields

I have him at +454 if you want to take your shot 

Fields is +275 for me now. Think I will double down 

[Forge]

😂

[49erurtaza]

 

[straighthate]

Yeah to the couple people that replied to me, I haven’t once said fields runs too much. Just have talked about pocket awareness and that he is not as good as Jones in regards to when the pocket starts to break down, stepping away from pressure while keeping his eyes downfield. And like I said, I’d love to have a QB with a big arm and can gain yards with his legs, I just value that below accuracy and putting the ball in a position where the receiver can get extra yards with their legs. Best of both worlds to me is a russel Wilson type who has great awareness but can move around and keep his eyes downfield. I don’t think fields is that guy. If we take him, I hope I’m wrong obviously. 
 

Jones is obviously a pure pocket passer and lacks any ability to move outside of the pocket like Wilson. I just love his movement in that pocket though and think he puts the ball in a perfect spot for the receiver to get downfield with the ball. 
 

That said, I think the difference between the two is minimal. I just feel like fans get caught up in the athleticism and big arm and to me it’s not as big of a deal as pocket presence and accuracy. 
 

Also, on the Steve Young comments, he’s a great example of a guy who figured out how to keep his eyes downfield, and once he did, he was obviously a HOF QB. The mobile guys should can’t do that are exciting to watch but don’t have long term success.