3rd Overall Pick - Trey Lance vs Justin Fields (with bonus third poll option)

[GW21]

1 minute ago, 49erurtaza said:

 

Mac to NY confirmed.

[Melbourne 9er]

Why does everyone believe that the Jets are taking Wilson? I haven't read anything from Jets officials about who they are taking. Remember Saleh is from the Shanahan coaching tree so it wouldn't surprise me if they were playing the same games as Shanahan, but they are under the radar as they did not need to trade to get to #2. The fact that they got rid of Darnold means that the new draft pick will have to start. Is Wilson the most Pro ready QB and would he be fine to start in New York from Day 1? I can still see Wilson as a very real option at #3.

[49erurtaza]

Just now, GW21 said:

Mac to NY confirmed.

Lol could you imagine.

[49erurtaza]

2 minutes ago, Melbourne 9er said:

Why does everyone believe that the Jets are taking Wilson? I haven't read anything from Jets officials about who they are taking. Remember Saleh is from the Shanahan coaching tree so it wouldn't surprise me if they were playing the same games as Shanahan, but they are under the radar as they did not need to trade to get to #2. The fact that they got rid of Darnold means that the new draft pick will have to start. Is Wilson the most Pro ready QB and would he be fine to start in New York from Day 1? I can still see Wilson as a very real option at #3.

I've been saying this is why we keep hearing Mac stuff he's the backup if Fields is taken at 2. I think Kyle has it ranked Tlaw, Fields, Mac, then Wilson. 

 

But really we probably getting Mac at 3 no matter what lol. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by 49erurtaza

[Ronnie's Pinky]

1 minute ago, 49erurtaza said:

I've been saying this is why we keep hearing Mac stuff he's the backup if Fields is taken at 2. I think Kyle has it ranked Tlaw, Fields, Mac, then Wilson. 

It makes a lot of sense that Kyle's top-3 would be the guys who have proven to be accurate pocket passers against top level competition. I can genuinely see Kyle rating Jones over Wilson and Lance, even if I think rating him over Fields is preposterous.

[adamq]

7 minutes ago, 49erurtaza said:

 

I have 20 bucks on Wilson to go #3 +4300 just in case 🙂

[big9erfan]

4 hours ago, straighthate said:

This is where I just defer to the guys scouting and interviews and all that. Like I said, watched every snap from fields and Mac and to me, it looked like Mac was checking down, going through his reads, etc, where fields seemed locked in to receivers. I’ve seen the stats some of you have shared to say otherwise but I’m just saying I didn’t see it that way at all. Maybe with the various angles you can see the eyes rather than just where the helmets pointing and all that, but it looked to me like Mac was scanning the field and Fields wasn’t nearly as much. But that’s once again, where I gotta trust the team doing research and talking to the prospects about what the play call was, who they looked off, etc. I just don’t have that much info, so it’s eye test for me. Also why I don’t see a big enough difference between Fields and Mac to flip out over either. Lance, I really think is inaccurate and will never be a top QB. If he’s who we go with, hope I’m wrong!

if you watched then you must have seen that for some reason ohio state often does not  have a hot read guy to check down to. I even heard some analyst criticizing Day's offense because of that. Also I've read that a lot of their scheme involves looking long first rather than short first. So those plays are going to take longer and without an outlet it might not look good without knowing what they are trying to do. In many cases what Fields was doing was "playing within the system", where the system was very different from Alabama's. The ongoing story of Fields not going through reads is frustrating given how many videos there are out there showing doing precisely that. What's more, again part of their route concepts involves reading a single defender and then choosing between 2 or 3 receivers in that area. It might look like he was locked on a receiver, but he was locked on a defender and I think he had pretty phenominal success at  making the right read and throwing to the right guy.

FWIW - a few pages back you'll see a wonderful still of two Alabama receivers WIDE open over 20 yards deep, another couple a bit shorter, and a fifth just across the los. But Jones checked down to the guy behind the los. I have no idea how many of those kinds of plays there are but it's worth noting that the flipside of watching a guy check down successfully a lot is knowing whether he was missing an opportunity. Cosell used to say about Kap that "often times the most important throw is not the one he made, but the one he didn't make". That has always stuck with me. But it would take someone with good all field angles and a lot of time to decide whether, or how many, of the check downs were lost opportunities.

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, Melbourne 9er said:

Why does everyone believe that the Jets are taking Wilson? I haven't read anything from Jets officials about who they are taking. Remember Saleh is from the Shanahan coaching tree so it wouldn't surprise me if they were playing the same games as Shanahan, but they are under the radar as they did not need to trade to get to #2. The fact that they got rid of Darnold means that the new draft pick will have to start. Is Wilson the most Pro ready QB and would he be fine to start in New York from Day 1? I can still see Wilson as a very real option at #3.

This was the closest they came to saying anything

“What did you think of Steve Young’s comments on the radio? Apparently he did some detective work and spoke to some members of the coaching staff and he said the Jets are ‘committed to Zach Wilson,'” one media member asked the GM.

“Steve’s plugged in to BYU pretty well,” Douglas replied.

[big9erfan]

3 hours ago, 49ersfan said:

Shanny's offense has faltered in 3 out of 4 seasons due to inferior QB play, all prototypical pocket passers with limited mobility. Its clearly been shown that Shanny can't perform his offense without at least an average QB, but the fact that he traded 3 1st's shows he wants more than average. 

Furthermore, he loses a SB against a mobile QB with a rocket arm. He loses an important MNF game against another mobile QB with a rocket arm, who he gushes over before and after the game 

The one year he had a mobile & healthy QB, his QB won the OROY and they won the division. It was derailed due to injury and infighting. 

After all that....he goes through the evaluation process and has Fields & Lance work with a handpicked QB coach, John Beck, who is presumably reporting directly back to Shanny.

After all this, he decides on Mac Jones?

It simply doesn't make sense...

Of course it could be, and sadly probably is, that he thinks he is getting a far better than average QB

Although I've said before that I think Shanny gets unhealthily (for the franchise) fixated and guys and happily overpays to get them.

[49erurtaza]

Man I'm watching every game of Mac's. I'm getting a Derek Carr vibes. When everything goes perfect he is on it. Gets the ball where he needs to go doesn't make mistakes. But when things start to fall apart like he has pass rush in face needs to move outside the pocket he makes dumb mistakes. Dude needs a good Oline to be successful. I'm 3 games in see how he progresses through the season. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by 49erurtaza

[big9erfan]

2 hours ago, straighthate said:

Agreed. While I’m a Jones fan, you lay out why I just don’t think it is him. And if it is, why I don’t think it was a smart trade. If he thinks one of the other two are the next mahomes, the trade makes sense. Unless he truly thinks Mac is Brady II, we gave up too much.

I’m still hoping we have all three ranked pretty much the same, so we drop back a couple spots, pick up future picks and pick at like 6 or something and get a QB and pretty much have our draft picks back. Likely? Not at all. But it’s what I still dream of. 

Yeah, if you're a jones fan than you almost no amount is too much to get him. A decade-long Pro Bowl QB is worth than, and more. I hope you're wrong about who we're picking. But if you right then I hope you are also right about him being the best of them!

[49ersfan]

18 minutes ago, 49erurtaza said:

I've been saying this is why we keep hearing Mac stuff he's the backup if Fields is taken at 2. I think Kyle has it ranked Tlaw, Fields, Mac, then Wilson. 

 

But really we probably getting Mac at 3 no matter what lol. 

Thats a good theory. If we were content with either Wilson or Fields, than there's no need to smokescreen. 

[49erurtaza]

3 minutes ago, 49ersfan said:

Thats a good theory. If we were content with either Wilson or Fields, than there's no need to smokescreen. 

I think Kyle is only ok with 2 QBs at 3. Tlaw and Fields for what they gave up. If Fields is gone at 2 I fully expect them to trade back and take Mac. Then say he was always the guy. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by 49erurtaza

[big9erfan]

26 minutes ago, straighthate said:

Yeah to the couple people that replied to me, I haven’t once said fields runs too much. Just have talked about pocket awareness and that he is not as good as Jones in regards to when the pocket starts to break down, stepping away from pressure while keeping his eyes downfield. And like I said, I’d love to have a QB with a big arm and can gain yards with his legs, I just value that below accuracy and putting the ball in a position where the receiver can get extra yards with their legs. Best of both worlds to me is a russel Wilson type who has great awareness but can move around and keep his eyes downfield. I don’t think fields is that guy. If we take him, I hope I’m wrong obviously. 
 

Jones is obviously a pure pocket passer and lacks any ability to move outside of the pocket like Wilson. I just love his movement in that pocket though and think he puts the ball in a perfect spot for the receiver to get downfield with the ball. 
 

That said, I think the difference between the two is minimal. I just feel like fans get caught up in the athleticism and big arm and to me it’s not as big of a deal as pocket presence and accuracy. 
 

Also, on the Steve Young comments, he’s a great example of a guy who figured out how to keep his eyes downfield, and once he did, he was obviously a HOF QB. The mobile guys should can’t do that are exciting to watch but don’t have long term success. 

So I actually agree with your observations about jones moving better in the pocket. I believe some of this is inate and some is learned. Whether other guys will eventually get as good as him I don't know. But the odds are they won't get as good as him. So we agree on that.

I would like Jones better if I thought his arm was better. But I don't see it as even average. He gets credit for a lot a really badly underthrown long passes simply because his receivers had a 10 yard cushion and time to come back for the ball. Also there was that analysis a few pages back of him tryiing to throw a long out to the other side of the field. Embarrassing amount of air under that pass and the defender knocked down a pass where the receiver was wide open when the ball was thrown. It just took too long to get there. I guess I'd trade a little deficit in pocket movement in hopes that it will get better over time, than a guy who can't make some NFL throws when I know that will liklely never change.

[J-ALL-DAY]

That's another thing, the Wilson to NYJ is also a little weird. Like no chance they like Fields or Lance? 

If Wilson some how falls to #3, is it really a lock he goes to us?