3rd Overall Pick - Trey Lance vs Justin Fields (with bonus third poll option)

[John232]

6 minutes ago, Forge said:

He's being called a racist and there's a petition to stop him from picking Mac. We are beyond starting to get shaky lol

 

I kind of despite Bonita, but if this gamble fails, then he will deserve all the hate coming his way. 2017 looks very bad hindsight, but for people who understand the context, can sort of jive with Shanny's rational back then. Failing now, making the wrong pick, etc, will ruin their careers. Don't see Lynch getting a FO job again and Shanny will be a HC again but will likely have to win a SB or 2 to even get that discussion from an organization. 

 

[Forge]

1 minute ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

I mean if Fields and/or Lance end up killing it while Jones is just okay? He deserves all the hate coming his way. This year he has no excuse as he practically gets to pick his QB. 

I think the frustration with Crocky and others is just how certain black QBs get this BS stigma and how everyone keeps talking about how smart Jones is… then when describing Lance they make it seem like they are surprised to hear he is very bright himself. 

But yeah, Shanny will have officially lost his pass with the fan base/local media. After that, it is usually damnit time the first time the team struggles. 

I like the way crocker has handled it because he's taken a bigger picture, media and narrative based approach to the racial issue

[John232]

3 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

 

I think the frustration with Crocky and others is just how certain black QBs get this BS stigma and how everyone keeps talking about how smart Jones is… then when describing Lance they make it seem like they are surprised to hear he is very bright himself. 

 

It's the NFL's version of "You're so articulate!". 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Just now, John232 said:

It's the NFL's version of "You're so articulate!". 

Bingo! Like with Jones it is all about just how bright he is and his photographic memory but then with Lance, "the teams that have talked to him have been pleasantly surprised at how smart he is and his knowledge of the game." Like really? Come on now...And the knock on Fields? He doesn't "process" quickly enough and doesn't make any pre-snap calls. Crocky is fed up and he's not taking any more of this lol. 

[Forge]

Going to say he sticks with Mac. This would bode well. Though he has often been accurate in reports for us, he misses on his mock just about every year 😂

[J-ALL-DAY]

9 minutes ago, Forge said:

I like the way crocker has handled it because he's taken a bigger picture, media and narrative based approach to the racial issue

And I mean the lazy analysis from local guys like Maiocco basically is doing nothing to dispel those narratives. When he switched to Jones, he kept saying Shanahan really rates accurate, smart QBs that don't divert from the play call...Maiocco is obviously not racist but it's not hard to see why so many get frustrated with this type of analysis. He's basically saying Fields is not accurate...Even though all the stats and advance stats say otherwise and because he can run, he's not a smart QB. 

That's why when I heard Silver actually go in detail of what this team likes about Mac, I appreciated that type of breakdown. It wasn't lazy and he did his research and got a direct quote/statement from someone in the Niners organization. Why can't everyone do that? 

[J-ALL-DAY]

7 minutes ago, Forge said:

Going to say he sticks with Mac. This would bode well. Though he has often been accurate in reports for us, he misses on his mock just about every year 😂

King is the guy in particular I told you that I don't expect to switch....But I expect him to just put it out in his article that "some in the league are not buying Jones and think they go_____." Even last year when he mentioned Kinlaw, I don't think he actually mocked Kinlaw to the Niners? He's good at those types of nuggets but doesn't always reflect in his mock drafts. 

[Justone2]

5 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Bingo! Like with Jones it is all about just how bright he is and his photographic memory but then with Lance, "the teams that have talked to him have been pleasantly surprised at how smart he is and his knowledge of the game." Like really? Come on now...And the knock on Fields? He doesn't "process" quickly enough and doesn't make any pre-snap calls. Crocky is fed up and he's not taking any more of this lol. 

For me processing has zero to do with how smart someone is. Its more how fast they access the information they have stored. Some people have a natural ability to think faster while they may not know as much but they access that more limited information quicker. 

 

But i totally agree that sometimes it feel the skin colour determines what type a player is instead of what they actually put on tape. White guys usually get the limited physical but smarter and higher football IQ and technically sound while people with diferent skin colour usually only get the physical traits and things like that pointed out.

[Forge]

7 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

King is the guy in particular I told you that I don't expect to switch....But I expect him to just put it out in his article that "some in the league are not buying Jones and think they go_____." Even last year when he mentioned Kinlaw, I don't think he actually mocked Kinlaw to the Niners? He's good at those types of nuggets but doesn't always reflect in his mock drafts. 

No, he also didn't much mcg to us the year he broke that info lolol

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, Justone2 said:

For me processing has zero to do with how smart someone is. Its more how fast they access the information they have stored. Some people have a natural ability to think faster while they may not know as much but they access that more limited information quicker. 

 

But i totally agree that sometimes it feel the skin colour determines what type a player is instead of what they actually put on tape. White guys usually get the limited physical but smarter and higher football IQ and technically sound while people with diferent skin colour usually only get the physical traits and things like that pointed out.

The problem is that for me, mac's football processing is just so overrated. Easily one of the most overrated draft stories I've ever heard. The data supports that when he can't point and click, it doesn't go well

[John232]

9 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

And I mean the lazy analysis from local guys like Maiocco basically is doing nothing to dispel those narratives. When he switched to Jones, he kept saying Shanahan really rates accurate, smart QBs that don't divert from the play call...Maiocco is obviously not racist but it's not hard to see why so many get frustrated with this type of analysis. He's basically saying Fields is not accurate...Even though all the stats and advance stats say otherwise and because he can run, he's not a smart QB. 

That's why when I heard Silver actually go in detail of what this team likes about Mac, I appreciated that type of breakdown. It wasn't lazy and he did his research and got a direct quote/statement from someone in the Niners organization. Why can't everyone do that? 

I can't remember the pod, but came out I think friday, something "the huddle" with Crocker. But he definitely went in on the narrative. Basically echoing your sentiments. 

 

On that note, i'm going to have to read the Silver article. Might actually make me feel better if we do end up picking jones. 

 

All that said, everything I've seen still leads to me thinking that its like a 40% Fields, 35% Lance 20% Jones and 5% Wilson. Like, again, Shanny making this massive trade-up for a guy like Jones is just not at all consistent with everything he's been saying the last 8 months. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

No, he also didn't much mcg to us the year he broke that info lolol

Yeah, that's why he will put those nuggets in but doesn't always reflect in his mock draft. I expect the same here with him still sticking with Jones but then adding he is hearing from some that this may be Fields or Lance. 

2 minutes ago, Justone2 said:

For me processing has zero to do with how smart someone is. Its more how fast they access the information they have stored. Some people have a natural ability to think faster while they may not know as much but they access that more limited information quicker. 

But i totally agree that sometimes it feel the skin colour determines what type a player is instead of what they actually put on tape. White guys usually get the limited physical but smarter and higher football IQ and technically sound while people with diferent skin colour usually only get the physical traits and things like that pointed out.

It just happens far too often though. Then somehow a report came out that Fields is not truly dedicated to the game and doesn't work hard....Um, what? 

And I'm tried of this crap about how smart a QB is since that doesn't mean a damn thing on the field. Fitzpatrick went to Harvard yet he's the most YOLO QB in the league minus maybe Winston....Mullens was SOOO smart and had a full grasp of the offense yet he kept throwing some of the worst INTs you will ever see. That needs to go from now on when talking about QBs. By all means talk about a QB being able to go from one read to another better than everyone else or being able to read a defense better but stop talking about photographic memory or how smart a QB is. 

[John232]

7 minutes ago, Justone2 said:

For me processing has zero to do with how smart someone is. Its more how fast they access the information they have stored. Some people have a natural ability to think faster while they may not know as much but they access that more limited information quicker. 

 

But i totally agree that sometimes it feel the skin colour determines what type a player is instead of what they actually put on tape. White guys usually get the limited physical but smarter and higher football IQ and technically sound while people with diferent skin colour usually only get the physical traits and things like that pointed out.

This conundrum always reminds me of Jeremy Lin. Dude got labeled right off the bat, went and destroyed every athletic test (iirc) and finished better than John Wall that year, then woop John Wall's *** in summer league and teams still didn't give him a shot until the Knicks basically had too. Then everyone is surprised. The evidence is typically there already, it's up to the evaluator to be honest with their own biases and make an honest assessment. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by John232

[straighthate]

This topics gonna get real ugly if the race stuff comes in here, but the last few posts are way off the mark. No one is saying wow Lance understands the offense with surprise because of his race. It’s because he’s the youngest one, at a small school, and played one game this year. And no one is saying Fields doesn’t process because of his race, it’s because he comes from an offense that lets plays develop so he holds the ball longer and takes more sacks. At least that’s the excuse for him. 
 

I think he doesn’t process vs Mac is because of the way it looks when Mac hits his back foot and fires where as Fields looks like he’s waiting for the perfect spot to throw. Once again, maybe that’s the offense, but everyone see’s a quicker read and throw from Jones because that’s what it looks like. 
 

Now these comments may not be directed at me, but the stuff in the previous posts from a few people that’s showing that race is involved in people’s analysis is the same stuff I’m saying as well. So indirectly it is at me. Maybe it’s just possible somebody’s just got a different take than you and values different things at the QB position, and not that people disagree with who you want have their racist blinders on. 
 

Rant over. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 minutes ago, John232 said:

I can't remember the pod, but came out I think friday, something "the huddle" with Crocker. But he definitely went in on the narrative. Basically echoing your sentiments. 

 

On that note, i'm going to have to read the Silver article. Might actually make me feel better if we do end up picking jones. 

 

All that said, everything I've seen still leads to me thinking that its like a 40% Fields, 35% Lance 20% Jones and 5% Wilson. Like, again, Shanny making this massive trade-up for a guy like Jones is just not at all consistent with everything he's been saying the last 8 months. 

It wasn't really an article just a a set of tweets and at NFL Network spot:

Like when you read that, you know Silver did his work and actually asked WHAT the team likes or may like about Jones. It wasn't the typical "he's accurate, smart and will run the offense well" crap that we keep hearing. So just reading this, the team thinks Jones pocket skills are amazing and he's going to be able to perform well when the pocket breaks down or the OL is not up to par. 

But as @Forge said, one issue with Jones is that when he has to work through multiple reads and his initial option is not open, he's not very good and that's actually a legitimate criticism of Jimmy. If you draft Jones, you just hope he is able to have the types of seasons Jimmy had in 2019 for majority of his career...Obviously doing it a little differently with more deep shots but yeah, kind of the same....Does anyone expect Jones to constantly throw on the outside and drive the ball over defenders heads?