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2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I recently watched Dalton against MN.   He isn’t great, but he isn’t that bad.   

He isn’t a bum if you can protect him.  

He's a marginal upgrade from Mitch who should at least be able to read defenses, grasp Nagy's concepts, and execute them.  I'd put him in the same category a guy like Kirk Cousins is in.  You can win some games with him but not a championship.

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12 minutes ago, soulman said:

He's a marginal upgrade from Mitch who should at least be able to read defenses, grasp Nagy's concepts, and execute them.  I'd put him in the same category a guy like Kirk Cousins is in.  You can win some games with him but not a championship.

"Well he should at least be able to execute Nagy's offense, so we'll see if it's any good" 2021 edition. The 2020 edition sucked. 

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1 hour ago, RunningVaccs said:

"Well he should at least be able to execute Nagy's offense, so we'll see if it's any good" 2021 edition. The 2020 edition sucked. 

This is what we don't know for certain.  Was it Mitch or is it Nagy?

I'm anything but confident Nagy is the offensive genius he was sold as and as far as his play calling goes he's been ineffective.  IMHO he needs to stop being a glorified OC and start being a full time HC and coach his entire team not just his offense.

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31 minutes ago, soulman said:

This is what we don't know for certain.  Was it Mitch or is it Nagy?

I'm anything but confident Nagy is the offensive genius he was sold as and as far as his play calling goes he's been ineffective.  IMHO he needs to stop being a glorified OC and start being a full time HC and coach his entire team not just his offense.

My vote is "both"

Mitch never developed and had some awful deficiencies, his best play was on simple half field reads or broken plays. Very often he wouldn't read a defense correctly or make the right change or call.  No play caller is going to be succesful for long with that QB, although I do think Nagy could have made changes to both the run game and QB plays to be better.  

Nagy has some great concepts and some bafflingly bad concepts. HIs calling under pressure sometimes makes no sense.  I think the "too cute" knock is overblown but real. He's also had the following QBs executing his system: Mitch, Daniel and Foles with a limited  offseason and some kind of trust breakdown.  The best he's looked was when he had a raging defense giving him the ball in 2018, with a fresh system/team look that no other teams had much time to scout. 

He's getting another chance to show that he can coach an offense, not a chance I expected him to get. We get a marginal upgrade at QB to try it out, and likely a rookie. I guess we'll see, but I would give Mitch turning it around more of a chance than Nagy turns out to be an offensive mastermind, and wouldn't bet pocket lint on either. 

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This should really embarrass the hell out of GMcC and Teddy Bears.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/jim-mcmahon-packers-best-organization-085008022.html

This is the QB who led them to their only SB win.

“I think it’s where quarterbacks go to die,” McMahon said.

McMahon isn’t much of a fan these days. Asked what the Bears should do in the draft, he said, “I don’t know, don’t watch them, don’t care. I wouldn’t know what they need or who they’re thinking of drafting.”

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1 minute ago, RunningVaccs said:

Mitch never developed and had some awful deficiencies, his best play was on simple half field reads or broken plays. Very often he wouldn't read a defense correctly or make the right change or call.  No play caller is going to be succesful for long with that QB, although I do think Nagy could have made changes to both the run game and QB plays to be better.  

The question we should be asking is why didn't Mitch develop.  That's at least one of the reasons Nagy was hired to begin with.  And furthermore why do the Bears always struggle to draft and develop their own QBs?  It's like a long term incurable disease with them.

 

4 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

Nagy has some great concepts and some bafflingly bad concepts. HIs calling under pressure sometimes makes no sense.  I think the "too cute" knock is overblown but real.

IMHO he is "too cute".. He has absolutely failed at putting an efficient NFL offense on the field since he arrived.  With a decent offense to pair with the 2018 defense the playoff loss to Philly would never have even come down to Parkey's "double doink".

 

7 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

He's getting another chance to show that he can coach an offense, not a chance I expected him to get. We get a marginal upgrade at QB to try it out, and likely a rookie. I guess we'll see, but I would give Mitch turning it around more of a chance than Nagy turns out to be an offensive mastermind, and wouldn't bet pocket lint on either. 

Strange as it may sound I'm not at all surprised he wasn't fired and I'm not entirely certain he will be after this season either provided the team doesn't just collapse.  It seems that GMcC and Teddy Bears abhor coaching searches more than they do losing because they're lousy at it.  They may want to win but both lack the knowledge of how to get it done.  As long as they remain in charge nothing will change just a few faces.

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I am fine making a big move for a QB. You have to have one, who cares the cost. 

 

Just have a better plan,

-Let them actually sit for an extend period of time. I think Dalton can likely accomplish that.

-Invest in the OL. Good OT play, good depth, a reliable run game. Have some actual training wheels to ease them in.

-Keep the offense simple. Run the Mitch offense for a year or two and do not do this big 202 thing again when half the offense cannot run it.

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1 hour ago, soulman said:

This is what we don't know for certain.  Was it Mitch or is it Nagy?

I'd say if you look at how Foles ran "Nagy's offense", it was pretty telling.

Then again, they made changes on the fly and didn't really have a training camp to practice...

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I think Nagy has some sound concepts, he just needs a QB who can make all the reads/checks AND he needs a quality offensive line.

Not sure when it will happen, but I am expecting a RT to be drafted somewhere in rounds 1-3 unless Castillo has a boner for Lachavious Simmons...

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1 hour ago, soulman said:

This should really embarrass the hell out of GMcC and Teddy Bears.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/jim-mcmahon-packers-best-organization-085008022.html

This is the QB who led them to their only SB win.

“I think it’s where quarterbacks go to die,” McMahon said.

McMahon isn’t much of a fan these days. Asked what the Bears should do in the draft, he said, “I don’t know, don’t watch them, don’t care. I wouldn’t know what they need or who they’re thinking of drafting.”

i could care less what mcmahon said. moose muhammed also said this is where WR go to die, and we've had some pretty good wr the last decade. there's a difference between having QBs that have not been good enough and not developing guys. idk, but have we really had anyone outside of mitch that has had some baseline skill that never developed? 

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57 minutes ago, G08 said:

I'd say if you look at how Foles ran "Nagy's offense", it was pretty telling.

Then again, they made changes on the fly and didn't really have a training camp to practice...

(Shrug) Every HC in the NFL went through much the same.  Brady was a newbie down in TB and won a SB.  IMHO Nagy still has a lot to prove.

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31 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

i could care less what mcmahon said. moose muhammed also said this is where WR go to die, and we've had some pretty good wr the last decade. there's a difference between having QBs that have not been good enough and not developing guys. idk, but have we really had anyone outside of mitch that has had some baseline skill that never developed? 

But I wasn't talking about you.  It was Phillips and GMcC who should be embarrassed because Mac is right.  We've done a horrible job of drafting and developing our own QBs. 

And I would surely call Cutler a guy whom we failed to get the most out of.

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