2021 NFL Draft

[soulman]

21 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Bears have nil cap space now.  They moved on from Wilson after taking their best shot.  Maybe next year.  

Pace will probably focus in on an OT in draft.  He has gotten away from BPA since Mack trade to keep putting fingers in dam.  

(Shrug)  If Seattle offers him up after June 1st do you honestly believe Pace will decline?

The whiff on Trubisky has been far more costly than initially imagined.  Unless they end up tanking a season he won't get close enough to get into the top five again so it seems like his only options are drafting a 2nd level QB and hopefully nurturing him into becoming a productive starter or keep pursuing Wilson.  And you're right.  It may not happen in 2021.  Right now there's no real way to know.

What we do know is that Dalton is positioned to start which to me means another year of .500 ball give or take a game or two.  I can't see where any of the progress GMcC called for is gonna come from.  All Pace has done is kept turning over players looking for answers that never seem to appear.  What's taken place this offseason that would make a long time follower feel any different?  I can't see it.

[Heinz D.]

16 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

On more than one occasion, to be precise

[dll2000]

3 hours ago, soulman said:

(Shrug)  If Seattle offers him up after June 1st do you honestly believe Pace will decline?

The whiff on Trubisky has been far more costly than initially imagined.  Unless they end up tanking a season he won't get close enough to get into the top five again so it seems like his only options are drafting a 2nd level QB and hopefully nurturing him into becoming a productive starter or keep pursuing Wilson.  And you're right.  It may not happen in 2021.  Right now there's no real way to know.

What we do know is that Dalton is positioned to start which to me means another year of .500 ball give or take a game or two.  I can't see where any of the progress GMcC called for is gonna come from.  All Pace has done is kept turning over players looking for answers that never seem to appear.  What's taken place this offseason that would make a long time follower feel any different?  I can't see it.

(Obnoxious Head shake) I think Seattle will not offer him.  Dead cap hit is insane for Seattle and Carroll is like a 100 years old.  Maybe next year.

Trubisky whiff is huge, but it was compounded by Mack trade since Bears had to wait until now or more realistically next year to attempt a reset at QB. 

Maintaining slightly above avg. teams for extended periods does put you in that middle ground of never getting impact QBs.

 

[G08]

Listening to the Pace and Nagy presses, I think we are drafting a corner and might not be interested in a QB until day 3.

[soulman]

11 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

(Obnoxious Head shake) I think Seattle will not offer him.  Dead cap hit is insane for Seattle and Carroll is like a 100 years old.  Maybe next year.

Trubisky whiff is huge, but it was compounded by Mack trade since Bears had to wait until now or more realistically next year to attempt a reset at QB. 

Maintaining slightly above avg. teams for extended periods does put you in that middle ground of never getting impact QBs.

 

The cap hit becomes more manageable after June 1.  While it still may not be enough I won't discard the idea simply because I'm convinced Pace won't.  And if your Seattle and Schneider believes that it's in their best interest to make a trade he'll want to max out his return.  He knows Pace will sell the farm to get him right now but in another year anything could happen including an injury to Wilson that significantly reduces his value. 

I just don't believe it's over yet.  Not unless Seattle restructures his deal to free up cap space.

This is where GB got incredibly lucky getting Favre for a 2nd round pick and also drafting Rodgers with a 24th pick in round one.  But we have no Ron Wolf or Ted Thompson evaluating QBs.  We have Ryan Pace who in six years has not been able to create stability at QB and it appears that 2021 will be year seven.

I don't know that the Mack trade hurt all that much.  We haven't had W/L records that would've allowed us to get within sniffing distance of the #3 overall we had the year we traded up one spot to take Mitch anyway.  We needed a dominant pass rusher so I don't think we can look back at that and say he cost us a QB when we used 2nd round picks on pass catchers like Shaheen and Miller.  One is already gone and the other has one foot out the door.

The pure fact of the matter is that Ryan Pace has not done a good job of rebuilding the offense to a championship level.

[HuskieBear]

2 hours ago, G08 said:

Listening to the Pace and Nagy presses, I think we are drafting a corner and might not be interested in a QB until day 3.

i understand the reasoning. we all know our window will be closed likely in the next 2-3 years. we need a ton of upgrades at many positions, and at QB we have 2 vets that are getting paid. upgrade the team at WR/OT/CB in the first 3 rounds, grab a developmental qb in the 5th/6th to sit for the year at 3rd string (book, ehlinger, newman), then fill depth at TE/OT/S/DL/EDGE whatever with the remaining picks. then next draft (and it sure seems like these two think there's gonna be a "next draft" for them) you trade the farm for who you believe is the top QB. boom, rookie qb with that low cap hit that you think can come in and play right away with a team that theoretically is already built around them to win.

now, don't misconstrue this as i think they should do it, but rather i understand the argument for it. 

[Heinz D.]

2 hours ago, soulman said:

The pure fact of the matter is that Ryan Pace has not done a good job of rebuilding the offense to a championship level.

He hasn't even tried. Once the question marks came up concerning Mitch, a new young quarterback should have been added. Leno wasn't all that great to begin with, and now he outright stinks. And has for two years. 

You can't rebuild an offense if you don't even try. Our first pick last year was a corner. And we were coming off a season where we were ranked fourth overall, defensively. 

9 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

i understand the reasoning. we all know our window will be closed likely in the next 2-3 years. 

If you're assuming a "window" time frame based on Mack's age, I'd counter that the window has probably already slammed shut. Mack has had back-to-back underwhelming years--for the second highest paid defender in the league. 

[HuskieBear]

Just now, HuskieBear said:

i understand the reasoning. we all know our window will be closed likely in the next 2-3 years. we need a ton of upgrades at many positions, and at QB we have 2 vets that are getting paid. upgrade the team at WR/OT/CB in the first 3 rounds, grab a developmental qb in the 5th/6th to sit for the year at 3rd string (book, ehlinger, newman), then fill depth at TE/OT/S/DL/EDGE whatever with the remaining picks. then next draft (and it sure seems like these two think there's gonna be a "next draft" for them) you trade the farm for who you believe is the top QB. boom, rookie qb with that low cap hit that you think can come in and play right away with a team that theoretically is already built around them to win.

now, don't misconstrue this as i think they should do it, but rather i understand the argument for it. 

to put it in perspective, just did a twirl on a quick mock draft machine, lets say the draft goes something like this

1 - CB...VT...Caleb Farley

2 - WR...PUR...Rondale Moore

3 - OT...CIN...James Hudson

5 - QB...ND...Ian Book

6 - S...ISU...Christian Uphoff

6 - OT...IOWA...Alaric Jackson

6 - TE...DUKE...Noah Gray

6 - EDGE...BUF...Malcolm Koonce

if we get Arob an extention, a WR core of him, mooney, and moore would be pretty sweet. plug in hudson on a cheap deal next year in place of leno, maybe jackson in place of ifedi. uphoff/bush fight for starting spot. developmental qb in book. farley and johnson give us two potential studs outside for the next 2-3 years. last two picks are guys we try to develop to replace vets the following season (quinn and graham)

TRADE

Bears trade 2022 and 2023 first round pick, 2022 second, and 2023 third to move up to 4th overall

Bears select - QB...USC...Kedon Slovis --- slovis stepped in as a true freshman at usc when he wasn't expecting to and played very well, handling the pressure that comes with it. he comes to chicago where there is even more pressure, but with a team that has a window to compete and attempts to get the best out of their new signal caller

 

[HuskieBear]

5 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

He hasn't even tried. Once the question marks came up concerning Mitch, a new young quarterback should have been added. Leno wasn't all that great to begin with, and now he outright stinks. And has for two years. 

You can't rebuild an offense if you don't even try. Our first pick last year was a corner. And we were coming off a season where we were ranked fourth overall, defensively. 

If you're assuming a "window" time frame based on Mack's age, I'd counter that the window has probably already slammed shut. Mack has had back-to-back underwhelming years--for the second highest paid defender in the league. 

mack, yes, but also the development and contract status of guys such as johnson, jackson, smith, nichols, hicks(maybe they extend him for a couple years?) - plus guys on offense such as monty, daniels, mooney, potentially arob. 

if that window is shut, i would expect half those guys to no longer be on the team in 2-3 years

[Heinz D.]

1 minute ago, HuskieBear said:

mack, yes, but also the development and contract status of guys such as johnson, jackson, smith, nichols, hicks(maybe they extend him for a couple years?) - plus guys on offense such as monty, daniels, mooney, potentially arob. 

if that window is shut, i would expect half those guys to no longer be on the team in 2-3 years

Jackson was just extended. Johnson will be too, provided his shoulder holds out, when the time comes. They'll keep Smith, for sure. 

Most of those guys you list are young. That's a good thing. 

I don't see any way they win a Super Bowl soon. Maybe while Mack is still on the team? That would take a lot of luck, though.

Now...while all those young guys you mention are still on the team? I can absolutely see that. That's entirely possible. 

[G08]

37 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

now, don't misconstrue this as i think they should do it, but rather i understand the argument for it. 

That's where I am as well. Plus, Pace said our QB room is good for a young QB which means we aren't taking one in the first 3 rounds lol.

[G08]

18 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

1 - CB...VT...Caleb Farley

2 - WR...PUR...Rondale Moore

3 - OT...CIN...James Hudson

5 - QB...ND...Ian Book

I'd be thrilled. Book, to me, is going to be a quality #2 in the league, but who knows maybe he can show something if he develops as QB2/QB3.

Don't forget, too, that Sam Darnold and Marcus Mariota will be FAs in 2022.

[Heinz D.]

 

[JAF-N72EX]

I really don't understand how people find cricket sounds "relaxing" in any way! They are so damn annoying.

 

[dll2000]

Random thoughts on Mac Jones:

How much of Mac hate is based off 1) Pictures showing body with no definition, 2) him not being a ‘mobile qb’ 3) past Alabama QBs not doing well and Tua not looking good last year (system QB)?

There is no upside to Mac is what I hear from NFL fans (mostly 49ers fans right now - but I think it would be same with any team drafting Mac).   No upside - reason: limited athleticism.  

But just short years ago CW was every running QB had to be converted to a pocket passer in NFL.  And it was true.   Because zone reads and RPOs are now a thing - every QB has to be able to run ball right? 

Well no people say ...  But he has to be able to scramble like Wilson or Rodgers!   Rodgers seem to do a ton better last year when he scrambled a lot less and played on time within the offense.  

If Brady was coming out this year he wouldn’t even be drafted or even be an UDFA in all likelihood.  No upside.  No athletic ability.   

What do people want these days?  Are Brady, Marino and Bledsoe the do-do bird?   You haven’t seen many of them at H.S. Level in 15-20 years.  Every HS coach wants a kid who can run and none a pure pocket passer.  Hard to find a kid to recruit that is a pure pocket passer even if you wanted one.  

I have expressed serious reservations on Mac as well.  Because he played at Bama with a defense that will keep him in every game and WRs that are better than every DB they face and an OL and Running game that says you probably don’t even need to throw the ball to win games.

But none of that is fair to Mac.   I just, if I did take time evaluate him, would find him a really tough evaluation.    I think all star game practices would go a long way in that regard.

Are we so sure that Mac or Macs of world have no upside?   

The assumption is great coaching can mold the great athlete, but only so much you can do with a not fast guy (bad athlete).    But what does position call for?   What is number one trait of an NFL QB at end of day?  Processing speed right?  (And sufficient arm talent to do something with it).   The latest IBM chip.   

Why do we assume the great athletes can all get there with good coaching when so few of them actually do?     Maybe we are concentrating too much on wrong talent.   It is isn’t straight intelligence since not all smart guys can do it and not all average intelligent guys can’t.  

We need to quantify that talent potential somehow.   But its like finding a great potential musician before he has learned to play.   Not so easy, but is doable I think.   Requires outside the box thinking though.  

Maybe if you took a Mac Jones or someone like him and you upgraded an innate talent (assuming he has one) for heightened processing speed and he has the higher upside than the bigger, faster runners.       

Just an interesting thought experiment as I finish my breakfast.