Vaughn breakout?

[BucsDraftGeek47]

https://www.pewterreport.com/bucs-arians-rb-vaughn-nfl-draft/

Apparently BA thinks so

🙄🙄🙄

no way imo

zooming & meeting with Felton

bringing Lombardi Lenny back

still being committed to Rojo

unless we trade Rojo and dont draft a back , highly unlikely Vaughn breaks out

just coach speak

[bucsfan333]

Rojo and Lenny are both FAs next year. We can still draft Felton and play Vaughn.

Licht said today that we'll draft guys based on where we see them two years from now. There's no rush for any rookies this year returning all of our starters.

[Buccaneer Bruce]

I have a feeling that they will be replacing Vaughn in the draft this year. He showed nothing in any appearance in 2020. 

[BucsDraftGeek47]

55 minutes ago, Buccaneer Bruce said:

I have a feeling that they will be replacing Vaughn in the draft this year. He showed nothing in any appearance in 2020. 

I wouldn't say "nothing" 

In the Detroit game he showed some burst

I just don't see much of a point in taking another back when we have 2 backs already that can carry the load

Edited April 5, 2021 by BucsDraftGeek47

[Buccaneer Bruce]

2 minutes ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

I would say "nothing" 

In the Detroit game he showed some burst

I just don't see much of a point in taking another back when we have 2 backs already that can carry the load

If Harris, Etienne or Williams is there at 32 you almost have to take them. 

[BucsDraftGeek47]

33 minutes ago, Buccaneer Bruce said:

If Harris, Etienne or Williams is there at 32 you almost have to take them. 

I disagree 

Trade down with someone that wants one of those guys if that ends up happening

I kinda compare it to the KC CEH pick, he didn't hv a huge impact,  and although I believe Etienne,  Harris,  and Javontae are better prospects, they'll still be behind Rojo & Lenny in the pecking order 

[kgarrett12486]

1 hour ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

I disagree 

Trade down with someone that wants one of those guys if that ends up happening

I kinda compare it to the KC CEH pick, he didn't hv a huge impact,  and although I believe Etienne,  Harris,  and Javontae are better prospects, they'll still be behind Rojo & Lenny in the pecking order 

This draft is as much about stocking the cupboard though, as any draft we've been in of recent memory. Usually we're a team with obvious holes on the roster and needing to fill those via the draft. That's not really the case with time around with us coming off the SB win and essentially bringing back the whole roster.

The most glaring needs for our roster are depth and cost controlled draft pieces who can take over as starters/major contributors in the next year or so (as we have so many guys on 1 year deals).

The RB spot is exactly that. We're set for 2021, but beyond that? If a guy like Ettiene/Williams/Harris is the BPA on your board at #32, you pull the trigger on that talent vs. going another route IMO. Don't worry about what impact they might/might not have on year 1 if you think they're going to be a stud in year 2 and beyond. If you don't value those guys as high, then trade back.

I think this is exactly the case of KC. They had some guys already at the spot (Wiliilams'), but still took CEH as they look to him being their future bell-cow at the time. He still had an impact year 1, but not what most anticipated (some of that was due to injury though), but they see him enough as the future that they moved on from the other pieces and have him penciled in for 3 down role. 

 

 

[BucsDraftGeek47]

36 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said:

This draft is as much about stocking the cupboard though, as any draft we've been in of recent memory. Usually we're a team with obvious holes on the roster and needing to fill those via the draft. That's not really the case with time around with us coming off the SB win and essentially bringing back the whole roster.

The most glaring needs for our roster are depth and cost controlled draft pieces who can take over as starters/major contributors in the next year or so (as we have so many guys on 1 year deals).

The RB spot is exactly that. We're set for 2021, but beyond that? If a guy like Ettiene/Williams/Harris is the BPA on your board at #32, you pull the trigger on that talent vs. going another route IMO. Don't worry about what impact they might/might not have on year 1 if you think they're going to be a stud in year 2 and beyond. If you don't value those guys as high, then trade back.

I think this is exactly the case of KC. They had some guys already at the spot (Wiliilams'), but still took CEH as they look to him being their future bell-cow at the time. He still had an impact year 1, but not what most anticipated (some of that was due to injury though), but they see him enough as the future that they moved on from the other pieces and have him penciled in for 3 down role. 

 

 

Although i agree with your assessment where , you get the guy that you have rated higher

i just think that positional value is a big thing

i would rather go get a CB like Farley if he falls , or Newsome or Asante Samuel Jr (because although its not a glaring need, CD3 is a FA next year) than go RB in round one just because the position is harder to find good talent at

RBs are devalued for a reason, every year there are great guys that come in and play well that are found in rounds 3 and later, even undrafted 

im sure next year there will be RBs we are all high on that we can get in round 1 and 2 as well and then Rojo and Lenny will be FAs so itll be a bigger need

not that i would hate the pick of Harris, Etienne, Javontae, i would be stocked bc i think those guys are electric, im just thinking in the sense of our Win NOW Window, a round 1 RB doesnt really make that much sense

 

 

[kgarrett12486]

1 hour ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

Although i agree with your assessment where , you get the guy that you have rated higher

i just think that positional value is a big thing

i would rather go get a CB like Farley if he falls , or Newsome or Asante Samuel Jr (because although its not a glaring need, CD3 is a FA next year) than go RB in round one just because the position is harder to find good talent at

RBs are devalued for a reason, every year there are great guys that come in and play well that are found in rounds 3 and later, even undrafted 

im sure next year there will be RBs we are all high on that we can get in round 1 and 2 as well and then Rojo and Lenny will be FAs so itll be a bigger need

not that i would hate the pick of Harris, Etienne, Javontae, i would be stocked bc i think those guys are electric, im just thinking in the sense of our Win NOW Window, a round 1 RB doesnt really make that much sense

 

 

If I were to take a RB at #32 it wouldn't be with a prospect I had rated the same or higher. It would be in the case where their wasn't a guy I had rated higher. I don't want to pass on a RB like Etienne that I might have graded as a 1st round talent to take a 2nd round talent on my board, just because guy like Etienne is a RB.

For example, I have a guys like Farley/Newsome  rated in the mid-late 1st round. If they were on the board still, I'm taking them all day. I would take him over Samuel, as I think Samuel is a late mid-late 2nd round value due to his size limitations, which preclude him to only playing the slot at the next level. I wouldn't trade out of the pick just to move back and target a Samuel type either. 

I think the devaluing of RB is starting to come full circle the last few years. Are they ever going to be as positionally valuable as a QB, OT, DE? Absolutely not. However, I think you can now make arguments the upper echelon RB's are as valuable as spots like LB's or DB's in a lot of schemes. I just put up a stat in the 'Lenny' thread that suggests just how important it is to have multiple high caliber RB's on the roster. 

I think where teams tend to over value the RB spot, is trying to commit another multi-year deal to a high-end RB after their 1st contract is up. You just don't get the return on investment there due to the shelf life they have given the pounding they take.

Just my opinion though.  

[Caaddy24]

I'd be so pissed with a RB in the 1st round. Not even just because the devaluing of the position. But because of the backs we already have. Sure they're not all around great backs or maybe not long term guys, but I'd hate for the 1st rounder to be buried in the depth chart. WR I'd be even more pissed. We are completely stacked at the WR and TE position. There's just no room. AB wants back bad and they aren't budging with their offer. 

1st pick has gotta be D-line or O-line. 

[kgarrett12486]

11 hours ago, Caaddy24 said:

I'd be so pissed with a RB in the 1st round. Not even just because the devaluing of the position. But because of the backs we already have. Sure they're not all around great backs or maybe not long term guys, but I'd hate for the 1st rounder to be buried in the depth chart. WR I'd be even more pissed. We are completely stacked at the WR and TE position. There's just no room. AB wants back bad and they aren't budging with their offer. 

1st pick has gotta be D-line or O-line. 

Let me preface this post by saying I am in no way advocating that our #1 pick should/needs to be a RB. I just want to give a true look at the BPA mindset.

We have a well rounded roster across the board and honesty, 99% of the starting spots are already locked in for 2021. So regardless if we go RB, WR, OL, DE, OLB, etc. that guy likely isn't going to be playing a ton of meaningful reps most games...

So a guy like Etienne may only see 5-10 snaps/looks, but you're essentially going to see the same thing from a rookie DE/OLB (barring an injury). 

The year 1 impact argument just doesn't make sense to me with the team we have. I've said before, but with all the vets we have on 1 year deals, this draft is about building the future with guys who can develop into starters/impact players and not looking for the most immediate return on investment. 

[bucsfan333]

22 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said:

I've said before, but with all the vets we have on 1 year deals, this draft is about building the future with guys who can develop into starters/impact players and not looking for the most immediate return on investment. 

The more rookies we have ready to step up next year, the more comp picks we should get from letting guys walk.

[BucsDraftGeek47]

1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Let me preface this post by saying I am in no way advocating that our #1 pick should/needs to be a RB. I just want to give a true look at the BPA mindset.

We have a well rounded roster across the board and honesty, 99% of the starting spots are already locked in for 2021. So regardless if we go RB, WR, OL, DE, OLB, etc. that guy likely isn't going to be playing a ton of meaningful reps most games...

So a guy like Etienne may only see 5-10 snaps/looks, but you're essentially going to see the same thing from a rookie DE/OLB (barring an injury). 

The year 1 impact argument just doesn't make sense to me with the team we have. I've said before, but with all the vets we have on 1 year deals, this draft is about building the future with guys who can develop into starters/impact players and not looking for the most immediate return on investment. 

i totally get what you're saying

if they got Harris/Etienne, for example, lets say 10-12 spots higher than Newsome/Samuel then take the guy you value higher regardless of position bc you think that is the best overall guy

but if you have them only 4-5 spots higher then maybe you take the other more valuable position

i can dig that

like you said either way, ANY guy we draft in rd1 (barring any injuries) is only going to get minimal snaps since we brought all our starters back

where i disagree with you is the bolded

imo they are beyond ALL IN on this Win Now Window of the Brady Era ala GOING FOR 2

and therefore I believe that they are solely trying to get Win Now guys that will make an impact or as much of one as possible

and in that sense, a RB or WR is NOT that guy due to our current personnel at those positions 

13 hours ago, Caaddy24 said:

I'd be so pissed with a RB in the 1st round. Not even just because the devaluing of the position. But because of the backs we already have. Sure they're not all around great backs or maybe not long term guys, but I'd hate for the 1st rounder to be buried in the depth chart. WR I'd be even more pissed. We are completely stacked at the WR and TE position. There's just no room. AB wants back bad and they aren't budging with their offer. 

1st pick has gotta be D-line or O-line. 

in that sense ^ DLine is that guy (or also imo CB)

our team is so awesomely stacked its hard to evaluate what position in the draft would make the biggest impact but imo that has to be DLine rotation or better CBs in the backend for coverage in those nickle/dime packages

the offense is beyond loaded, the only thing holding it back sometimes was the play calling ***cough cough Byron Leftwich*** 

the defense on the other hand had some spurts of bad bad play , that was based on CB play (also some questionable zone play by Bowles)

but even then you could say that our defense would benefit from some more talent where as on offense we are pretty much set

[Caaddy24]

2 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Let me preface this post by saying I am in no way advocating that our #1 pick should/needs to be a RB. I just want to give a true look at the BPA mindset.

We have a well rounded roster across the board and honesty, 99% of the starting spots are already locked in for 2021. So regardless if we go RB, WR, OL, DE, OLB, etc. that guy likely isn't going to be playing a ton of meaningful reps most games...

So a guy like Etienne may only see 5-10 snaps/looks, but you're essentially going to see the same thing from a rookie DE/OLB (barring an injury). 

The year 1 impact argument just doesn't make sense to me with the team we have. I've said before, but with all the vets we have on 1 year deals, this draft is about building the future with guys who can develop into starters/impact players and not looking for the most immediate return on investment. 

Yeah I get what you're saying for sure. I would just sleep better at night, knowing we have better depth at the D-line position, than depth at RB. And same thing for O-line. If we get a top O-line interior guy, it would just make me feel better. But I also lean towards drafting for need positions more than BPA. Even though, we're in a unique positon this year with no immediate needs. But, I still don't think that means to just draft whoever is at the top of the board who's there at the pick. If Lenny wasn't re-signed, I'd be more open to it. 

And really, there's a ton of D-line guys in this draft. I think I'd be ok with trading back and just somehow drafting 5 D-line guys in this draft haha

[bucsfan333]

19 minutes ago, Caaddy24 said:

And really, there's a ton of D-line guys in this draft. I think I'd be ok with trading back and just somehow drafting 5 D-line guys in this draft haha

The problem with that is actually hitting on a bunch of them. Because you're gonna have to pay them all at the same time or let them walk.