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Loki - Disney+ - Season 2 Confirmed


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1 hour ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

I think this is how Black Panther potentially gets replaced. They have an out now with the multiverse plot device. Maybe Michael B. Jordan from a universe where he wasn't a jerk comes to "our" universe to take over. 

This is what I been thinking for a while, though I think they use T’Chaka instead

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1 hour ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Two more questions on my mind: 

Sylvie's original plan with the different branching timelines. Was that going to set up What If? Or did the fallout with killing Immortus/Kang/Nathaniel Richards set that up? Would be an easy connection to make. 

Where did Renslayer go??? "To find free will". 

I'm under the impression that What If has zero connection to the MCU. It's its own thing.

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3 minutes ago, kingseanjohn said:

I'm under the impression that What If has zero connection to the MCU. It's its own thing.

Yeah, that's kinda what I've gathered as well. 

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11 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

I still think WandaVision was the best of the three, even with Loki meaning so much more for the next phase.  Both were a clearly ahead of Falcon and the Winter Soldier though.

F&WS was fine,  but the ambition of the other two so far just dwarfs it incredibly. 

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First of all, loved the ending.

I am super excited. 

I am also TERRIFIED. 

Multiverse can be fun and interesting. However, it can also be abused... HARD. It lowers stakes and makes things convoluted if not handled with care. They need to make a concerted effort to keep us grounded in OUR MCU when exploring the multiverse. 

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1 hour ago, kingseanjohn said:

I'm under the impression that What If has zero connection to the MCU. It's its own thing.

It's connected in the sense that it's the MCU characters. We even have some of the actors voicing their roles. It may not be connected to the entire big picture you are right. Just seems like a big coincidence that that show is debuting with the MCU on the verge of heading into multiverse territory. And now Hiddleston has confirmed it does connect. We'll see. 

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3 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

First of all, loved the ending.

I am super excited. 

I am also TERRIFIED. 

Multiverse can be fun and interesting. However, it can also be abused... HARD. It lowers stakes and makes things convoluted if not handled with care. They need to make a concerted effort to keep us grounded in OUR MCU when exploring the multiverse. 

Yes. Because then you could just go get another Tony or Nat that isn't dead. 

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Saw someone else do their rankings and included Loki and where they feel it fits in, and I think I have it in the same area. I liked this season, and I'm excited there will be a season 2 because I didn't really expect there would be at all, and even though in general I tend to like my serious stories in TV/streaming series form over movies (in the sense that I think TV gives a better opportunity for more fleshed out characters and plots but the way TV is ran almost all of them are ran into the ground and hang around for 1-4 more seasons than they should) but with Marvel being a long haul, ongoing connected universe that doesn't really have as many of the same drawbacks movies have in not having enough time to do character and story arcs enough justice the advantages TV series have in how I consume stories isn't really much of a factor. 

With all that in mind, it's still hard to put Loki (or WandaVision or Falcon and the Winter Soldier) super high on my list ranking the MCU. The movie universe being around for so long now and being really well run and thought out, even if I feel some movies could have been better or would have maybe gone in a different direction (main one probably being waiting for Civil War for another phase if not 2 or 3 more to add to the stakes and seriousness of it with presumably adding a decent amount of new heroes to be involved on either side and probably leaving Zemo out of it and let the conflict come from almost entirely internally even though I liked Zemo in Civil War) they have handled the long arching arcs plot and characters well for the most part and thus the series format doesn't really have as much of the biggest advantage it offers over movies. 

All that being a long winded way of saying here are my rankings. I included the Netflix series even though I know Marvel isn't going to continue those series or even acknowledge them I still think it's a fun exercise because we are including the Disney Plus shows to these lists now. I use the entirety of the show in the rankings so a show I loved the first season of but didn't like the 2nd much gets averaged out in terms of where I place it. Also, I haven't seen Black Widow yet. And I never watched Agent Carter or Agents of Shield. 

1. Avengers Infinity War 

2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier

3. Daredevil (Netflix)

4. Thor: Ragnarok 

5. Avengers: Endgame 

6. Spider-Man: Homecoming

7. Iron Man

8. The Avengers 

9. Guardians of the Galaxy 

10. Captain America: Civil War

11. Guardians of the Galaxy 2

12. Spider Man: Far from Home

13. WandaVision

14. Loki 

15. The Punisher (season 2 I didn't like that much, keeps it from being top 10).

16. Doctor Strange 

17. Jessica Jones (Netflix)

18. Captain America: The First Avenger 

19.  Avengers: Age of Ultron 

20.. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

21. Black Panther

22. Iron Man 3

23. Luke Cage (Netflix)

24. Ant-Man

25. Ant-Man and the Wasp

26. Thor

27. Iron Man 2

28. The Incredible Hulk

29. Captain Marvel 

30. Thor: The Dark World

31. The Defenders (Netflix)

32. Iron Fist (Netflix)

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What I see now when looking at my list, for the top 10, what puts things at the top are the movies/shows with my personal best villains/most well written, the antagonists that I feel worked the best and were typically the most understandable. I have a degree in journalism and I have always loved to write, there is nothing I love more than a story. And I was always taught to believe that your protagonist is only as good as your antagonist. They should be the foil to help make your hero more relatable, understandable, they are the thing that helps you get the best understanding of who exactly your hero is. What their values are, what motivates them, what are their beliefs? And for a long stretch of MCU properties I believed that was their biggest flaw in my eyes. The majority of their antagonists were boring, not very well defined, bland, generic, mustache twirling bad guys that could be swapped out from movie to movie. I do believe that super hero movies are the genre that can most get away with that problem, but when the villains are nailed in that genre it generally makes them stand out above all the rest in a genre that has been the driving force of media over the last decade. 

That is the biggest reason why Infinity War takes the cake. It was an absolutely brilliant idea to basically have Thanos function as the protagonist as it was his story. Plus they get bonus points for having the stones to subvert expectations and allow the bad guy to achieve his goal. Thanos was crazy, and I disagreed with him, but I understood. The Winter Soldier didn't have any stand out one particular villain. In most movies Alexander Pierce would be forgettable and the way Bucky was used he couldn't be the only antagonist, but the spy/thrilled really worked for me and the accumulative effect both villains had to come together to make a very interesting foil and throw Steve off base. The personal ties to Bucky and the impact Pierce had in causing the one thing Cap relied on in a world he felt out of time with (his country and their ability to do the right thing to protect others) worked to make the need for one stand out bad guy not as crucial. This is also the reason I have Netflix Daredevil very high. Fisk is IMO the clear cut #2 villain in the entire MCU. He was just phenomenal. It allowed a lot of things in terms of understanding Daredevil and make his struggles mean more than a lot of MCU movies don't have. It's also what has Spider Man: Homecoming so high on my list. It's not always necessary to have a great villains in a super hero movie because 99% of the time it just needs to be someone they can punch hard enough to beat and save the day, but IMO the fact they are so consistent with needing a final big battle allows the movies where the bad guy stands out or can raise interesting final conflicts that are different or go deeper/more personal, to shine over the rest. Obviously there are exceptions, you need more than just a great villain Obviously. I loved Eric in Black Panther but the rest of the movie didn't do enough for me to have that be as much of a factor in how much I liked it as it could have. Movies like Thor:Ragnarok didn't have a great villain, and neither did Endgame because the Thanos we saw there wasn't really the Thanos we had in Infinity War, but in both of those examples they were different, fresh, creative, funny, etc enough to make them still movies I love despite not having as good an antagonist as others. 

Which all brings me back to Loki, I liked the show. I thought the first few episodes were better than the 4th and 5th, and the final episode rebounded IMO, and it was definitely different than a lot of super hero media in terms of plot and the ride that we take, but it still left me thinking it could have been better. Which gives me hope about a second season. I think it fell into the same traps a lot of the middling Marvel properties do. It didn't really provide a stand out foil for our protagonist. It didn't necessarily feel very personal to them. There was no imposing threat that I really feared as a viewer, it was a lot of setting things in motion and doing things that were needing in the larger picture to set up that threat for future characters and future movies/TV. And while that can obviously pay off in a HUGE way, like Thanos did in Infinity War, it can also keep the current stories from being as great as they possibly could have been. Which is probably a worthwhile sacrifice because most of the time MCU product isn't awful or unwatchable, it's just kind of solid and something you are happy to watch once or twice and not really feel the need to watch again. And it can lead to a climax of multiple movies that is super satisfying and something you are super invested in. I suppose that is just a pit fall of a long connected universe. Some things have to be done to set up things for a long multiple movie narrative, and the individual works sometimes have to pay a bit of the price for that. Kind of felt like Loki fell victim to that a little bit and could have maybe been great in a different version. But the version we got was solid, entertaining, and worth the time you invest into it. 

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