KingOfNewYork Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, NYRaider said: So Gase with a top 3 QB in the history of the sport is a good coach but without one his offenses have regularly ranked near the bottom of the league. You said the Gase thing is ridiculous yet his offenses with Tannehill were some of the worst in the league and the Titans just had a top 5 offense with him at QB. Tannehill played well under Gase, he got healthy and played great in a playaction offense led by the best Running Back in the NFL. Peyton Manning had the best individual season for a QB under Gase then followed that up with another great season. Then fell off a cliff when Gase left. But this isn't about Peyton Manning or Ryan Tannehill or Adam Gase. Darnold was trash because he missed open receivers and threw too many interceptions. That's on him and no one else. Make all the excuses you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 Just now, KingOfNewYork said: Tannehill played well under Gase, he got healthy and played great in a playaction offense led by the best Running Back in the NFL. had the best individual season for a QB under Gase then followed that up with another great season. Then fell off a cliff when Gase left. But this isn't about Peyton Manning or Ryan Tannehill or Adam Gase. Darnold was trash because he missed open receivers and threw too many interceptions. That's on him and no one else. Make all the excuses you want. The Dolphins offense wasn't good with Tannehill/Gase. But you see what happened when Tannehill went to an offense with weapons and an elite RB. Don't the Panthers have one of the best RB in the league? Manning fell off a cliff because he was 39 years old and hurt. Not making excuses but the Jets did a horrible job of putting talent around Darnold and Gase has proven to be a mediocre coach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: The Dolphins offense wasn't good with Tannehill/Gase. But you see what happened when Tannehill went to an offense with weapons and an elite RB. Don't the Panthers have one of the best RB in the league? Manning fell off a cliff because he was 39 years old and hurt. Not making excuses but the Jets did a horrible job of putting talent around Darnold and Gase has proven to be a mediocre coach. How are you gonna say not making excuses yet continue to make excuses. So now every Quarterback is going to become Ryan Tannehill. So the Jets surrounded Darnold with mediocre talent yet the coach was expected to turn that mediocre talent but a turnover happy Quarterback into a functional offense. Miami went to the playoffs year 1, Tannehill was hurt year 2, year 3 was up and down but they were 8-5 13 games in and lost out and missed another chance to make the playoffs. This narrative that Tannehill was trash is ridiculous, blaming everyone but Darnold is ridiculous, thinking because Carolina(who won 5 games last year) is this powerhouse is ridiculous, if you need Elite talent around you to be good then you probably aren't that good to begin with. It's the same reason the Rams got rid of Goff, 49ers getting rid of Jimmy G and so on. Sam Darnold wasn't a good Quarterback, period. He can possibly turn it around, hell he might win MVP or go to the Pro Bowl next year. Doesn't change the fact that he was bad in New York. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 Just now, KingOfNewYork said: Sam Darnold wasn't a good Quarterback, period. He can possibly turn it around, hell he might win MVP or go to the Pro Bowl next year. Doesn't change the fact that he was bad in New York. Agreed. And if the Jets don't retool their offense in a major way Zach Wilson will likely be bad in NY as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Agreed. And if the Jets don't retool their offense in a major way Zach Wilson will likely be bad in NY as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTrav Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 5 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said: Peyton Manning had the best individual season for a QB under Gase then followed that up with another great season. Then fell off a cliff when Gase left. So there we go guys. Peyton Manning's success is actually down to Gase. And when he fell off it was nothing to do with neck surgery or getting old, it's because he didn't have El Gaso. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 23 pages wtf? The Jets are trash. Darnold is also trash. The end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 16 hours ago, NYRaider said: I've personally never really been that high on Bridgewater and have viewed him as more of a game manager. Same. But I dont view Darnold any more favorably. 16 hours ago, NYRaider said: I think Darnold has more upside and will allow Brady to open up the playbook. Carolina is apparently looking to trade him now and will have to eat $10M in dead cap this year (but frees up $13M) and then they won't have to pay him following 2021. Darnold only has a $4M cap hit this year and an $18M cap hit with his 5th year option in 2022. So if things don't work out well this season they could always look to draft a quarterback next year and only have a 2 year commitment to Darnold. Again, I dont see anything wrong with the Panthers taking a chance, especially if they dont see a chance of getting a top end QB in the draft. But I just dont see what Darnold has shown to make him worth what they gave up. If they see upside....so be it....but he is still a depreciating asset with too many question marks. 16 hours ago, NYRaider said: And I think draft capital is always overvalued. They gave up a future 2nd round pick for a potential starting quarterback. I agree draft capital gets overvalued by some....but it is undervalued by others. Darnold hasnt shown much at all. They gave up essentially top 50 value for him, which is still quality starter territory. I get that every draft pick is a gamble in and of itself, but Darnold has shown very little to be excited by. I personally thought he was a 2nd round talent the year he was drafted. While he showed glimpses in college, I felt like he was drafted purely on his upside rather what he had ever actually shown.....and this is the same deal. 16 hours ago, NYRaider said: How often do teams find starting QB's in the 2nd round? The Dolphins gave up the 62nd pick in 2018 for Josh Rosen and he was terrible as a rookie. The Colts gave up a 3rd round pick and a future conditional 2nd round pick (which could become a 1st) for Carson Wentz who is 6 years older, has a way bigger cap hit, and is a guy that has dealt with injuries throughout his career. And the 49ers just gave up 3 1st round picks for the third best QB in the draft. QB desperate teams make stupid decisions that can ultimately hold their team back even longer. Trading a 2nd for Darnold isnt going to set them back, but their desperation caused them to trade more for Darnold than what he is worth at this point. 16 hours ago, NYRaider said: It's also kind of hard to compare Darnold and Bridgewater. Bridgewater has had 1 year where he led a team to the playoffs but he had a top 5 defense and Adrian Peterson. They went 11-5 and Bridgewater only passed for 3,200 yards, 14 TD, 9 INT. And he looked good in spot duty with the Saints but he also had one of the best offenses in the NFL around him. Not really trying to compare them directly. I just thought it was silly to act like Darnold was a CLEAR upgrade over Teddy. 16 hours ago, NYRaider said: Darnold has obviously had his struggles but he also had almost zero talent around him. When you look at the second half of the 2019 season when Darnold was healthy he threw for 1,947 yards (61% comp), 13 TD, 4 INT and the Jets were 6-2 down the stretch. I wouldnt say ZERO talent. I agree he didnt have a ton of help, but a first overall QB talent should be a tranformative player that can show far more than Darnold showed without much talent around him. Not saying he should be expected to do everything himself, but he showed many of the same flaws in the NFL as he had in college. Yes, you can blame Gase for not coaching him up....but I guess Im just not as confident as others that his issues can be fixed. I get he is still young, but I never really saw the upside in him that others saw. Not that I never saw ANY upside.....but I think 2nd round value for him at this point is a HUGE gamble. The biggest issue with that team was Gase...by far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 Tannehill in Miami Under Gase 2016 19 TDs (20th) 12 INTs (15th) 74.2 Overall PFF Grade 73.4 Passing PFF 58.8 Rushing PFF 2017 DNP 2018 17 TDs (24th) 9 INTs (23rd) 45.3 Overall PFF Grade 42.4 Passing PFF Grade 65.8 Rushing PFF Grade Tannehill In Tennessee 2019 22 TDs (16th) 6 INTs (23rd) 92.5 Overall PFF Grade 91 Passing PFF Grade 84.4 Rushing PFF Grade 2020 33 TDs (7th) 7 INTs (27th) 90.3 Overall PFF Grade 85.2 Passing PFF Grade 91 Rushing PFF Grade 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 You can live with this if you are Carolina - but it was an overpay. I don't know who else was bidding with them for Darnold. At some point you just offer less and say take it or leave it knowing you can fall back on Teddy Personally, I'm choosing Teddy over Darnold in the first place 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidPanther89 Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Tk3 said: You can live with this if you are Carolina - but it was an overpay. I don't know who else was bidding with them for Darnold. At some point you just offer less and say take it or leave it knowing you can fall back on Teddy Personally, I'm choosing Teddy over Darnold in the first place Darnold is a good gamble for the Panthers. Teddy Bridgewater was awful last year. He can't be relied upon to win the game. This was a good flyer for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflbillsfan Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 12 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said: How are you gonna say not making excuses yet continue to make excuses. So now every Quarterback is going to become Ryan Tannehill. So the Jets surrounded Darnold with mediocre talent yet the coach was expected to turn that mediocre talent but a turnover happy Quarterback into a functional offense. Miami went to the playoffs year 1, Tannehill was hurt year 2, year 3 was up and down but they were 8-5 13 games in and lost out and missed another chance to make the playoffs. This narrative that Tannehill was trash is ridiculous, blaming everyone but Darnold is ridiculous, thinking because Carolina(who won 5 games last year) is this powerhouse is ridiculous, if you need Elite talent around you to be good then you probably aren't that good to begin with. It's the same reason the Rams got rid of Goff, 49ers getting rid of Jimmy G and so on. Sam Darnold wasn't a good Quarterback, period. He can possibly turn it around, hell he might win MVP or go to the Pro Bowl next year. Doesn't change the fact that he was bad in New York. Tannehill is a system qb he works well when he has a good coach. Gase was not a good coach, if you look at what tannehill actually did in Miami you will see a ton of his plays involved 2-5 yard passes with the rarity of throwing down field. Gase had the ability to showcase his true qb culture to not only Darnold but to Flacco too (Super Bowl MVP) and yet still couldn't offer much more. Yes Flacco isnt the guy he once was but its not only Flacco, Tannehill or Darnold. Its his consistent mediocre offenses that were being produced as they all were bottom 20 in the league as HC (2020 32, 2019 31, 2018 31/28 in pts, 2017 26/28 in pts, 2016 28/20 in pts, 2015 Bears OC was 23/21 in points). So gase overall is a bad offensive mind hc. Statistically his offenses have been consistently trash outside of Peyton Mannings career. As for Darnold's weapons his best Wr since entering the league has been an undrafted rookie in Robbie Anderson. Jamison Crowder has been the 2nd best weapon you have given him in that period of time. Not only weapons were lacking but you also had Becton a rookie Darnold's final year as the best olineman on that team since him joining the league. The organization did nothing to help assist him to get to the next level. When guys are running for their life or have lack of weapons you tend to not take the next step at the pro level. Not saying Darnold is randomly going to be the MVP of the league but I do not see how the Jets were helpful in getting him the best opportunity to succeed. Whether he now can benefit with guys like CMC, Anderson (again) and DJ Moore is something that will be interesting to see as he no longer has excuses for not having any weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 5 hours ago, RabidPanther89 said: Darnold is a good gamble for the Panthers. Teddy Bridgewater was awful last year. He can't be relied upon to win the game. This was a good flyer for them. I believe that Darnold has the opportunity to improve under a new team/scheme But to say Teddy was awful in 2020 is completely disregarding just how much worse Darnold was 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A W Niloc Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 3 hours ago, Tk3 said: But to say Teddy was awful in 2020 is completely disregarding just how much worse Darnold was Exactly. To put this another way: 2020 was, by far, Teddy Bridgewater's worst year. It was still better than Sam Darnold's best year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 12 hours ago, Tk3 said: Personally, I'm choosing Teddy over Darnold in the first place vikings chose Teddy, then dumped him saints chose Teddy, then dumped him panthers chose Teddy, then dumped him I'm detecting a pattern here. Teams KNOW for certain that Teddy just can't be The Man, but the jury is still out on Darnold. Now, Darnold may end up with the same fate as Teddy, but there's still a glimmer of hope. No hope exists for Teddy. Was it an overpay for Darnold ? Probably, but that's true of most QB trades 28 minutes ago, Dr A W Niloc said: 2020 was, by far, Teddy Bridgewater's worst year. yeah, that's kinda the point. 6 years in and he isn't getting good enough. His apex was with an all- star offense and top coach in NO... and they dumped him. He's an average back- up QB at this point 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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