Jets trade QB Sam Darnold to Carolina

[JetsandI]

20 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

I don’t understand how or why that’s true. Even still there will be an I told you so from both sides no matter the outcome. This fan base an both issues with moving on and PTSD so no one will ever really be happy. 

But we still need Wilson to stand out. Tired of reading same bs about qb.

[KingOfNewYork]

2 hours ago, JetsandI said:

But we still need Wilson to stand out. Tired of reading same bs about qb.

Of course but that’s all that really matters not whether or not Sam is good in Carolina or wherever he ends up after if that doesn’t work out. 

 

[jetsfan4life51]

Don't know if it was talked about in the draft thread but looks like Carolina isn't helping out Sam.  Good for us, that 2nd round pick could be great.

[KimuraGod]

Man makes me really question just how did we manage to screw this kid up so much. I know there are some that blame Sam more than other people like Gase and Mac/JD but just watching this makes me think how quick the Sam Darnold era lasted. Crazy!!! 

[jetjuice]

4 minutes ago, xenajets said:

Man makes me really question just how did we manage to screw this kid up so much. I know there are some that blame Sam more than other people like Gase and Mac/JD but just watching this makes me think how quick the Sam Darnold era lasted. Crazy!!! 

I'm not buying this narrative. Darnold is his own problem. I'm on record saying that his on-field awareness is awful many times. I was team Baker that year all the way, was crushed when he went #1 overall because he was the only QB I was sold on. Luckily I'm just as sold, if not more so, on Zach Wilson as I was Baker.

[KimuraGod]

6 minutes ago, jetjuice said:

I'm not buying this narrative. Darnold is his own problem. I'm on record saying that his on-field awareness is awful many times. I was team Baker that year all the way, was crushed when he went #1 overall because he was the only QB I was sold on. Luckily I'm just as sold, if not more so, on Zach Wilson as I was Baker.

What narrative? 

[KingOfNewYork]

19 minutes ago, xenajets said:

What narrative? 

The we "ruined" Sam

You cant ruin something that wasn't good to begin with. Sam was only ever good in flashes, he had moments but consistently reverted back to the issues that plagued him as a prospect. 

 

[KimuraGod]

Just now, KingOfNewYork said:

The we "ruined" Sam

You cant ruin something that wasn't good to begin with. Sam was only ever good in flashes, he had moments but consistently reverted back to the issues that plagued him as a prospect. 

 

We never did the right thing by him though. Thank god that we are not doing the same thing with Zach. 
 

How anyone can begin to defend the regime and coaches that were around Sam is beyond me. 
 

Clearly he didn’t kick on from his college days and some of the blame of course goes onto Sams shoulders but it’s without doubt an epic failure from all sides. I just can’t believe how quickly the Darnold era lasted really.

[KingOfNewYork]

2 minutes ago, xenajets said:

We never did the right thing by him though. Thank god that we are not doing the same thing with Zach. 
 

How anyone can begin to defend the regime and coaches that were around Sam is beyond me. 
 

Clearly he didn’t kick on from his college days and some of the blame of course goes onto Sams shoulders but it’s without doubt an epic failure from all sides. I just can’t believe how quickly the Darnold era lasted really.

Again those are excuses, was Macc the best GM? Hell no, Gase the best coach? Of course not but in no way shape or form is that reason the kid was turning the ball over so much and missing wide open receivers. 

I never hold us not winning games against Darnold because the team wasn't good enough talent wise, coaches be damned. No pass rush or speed on defense, offense was forced to score almost every series to have a chance. 

However that doesn't absolve Sam of throwing so many bad passes. I dont care who you are throwing to, some passes should not be thrown. If he didn't do that he'd still be on the roster IMO likely because we maybe pull off an additional game or 2. 

He just has to fix some things awareness wise and not throw himself out of games so early. He can lean on the run game, defense and make the timely throws and he should be fine but that's easier said than done. 

[KimuraGod]

13 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Again those are excuses, was Macc the best GM? Hell no, Gase the best coach? Of course not but in no way shape or form is that reason the kid was turning the ball over so much and missing wide open receivers. 

I never hold us not winning games against Darnold because the team wasn't good enough talent wise, coaches be damned. No pass rush or speed on defense, offense was forced to score almost every series to have a chance. 

However that doesn't absolve Sam of throwing so many bad passes. I dont care who you are throwing to, some passes should not be thrown. If he didn't do that he'd still be on the roster IMO likely because we maybe pull off an additional game or 2. 

He just has to fix some things awareness wise and not throw himself out of games so early. He can lean on the run game, defense and make the timely throws and he should be fine but that's easier said than done. 

Listen I hear you...Sam didn’t do himself any favours. He never kicked on and going into his fourth year looks more or less the same player we drafted in 2018. I’m convinced it was the right move to trade Sam and start fresh with Zach as well you know. 

I factor so many things into it why it went wrong though. The talent level of the squad when he arrived was god awful. Our drafting had been horrific and that led to us having one of the worst rosters in football. Add in a terrible GM and two poor head coaches and we were pissing in the wind. 
 

The other four teams who took a qb in the first round that year (I’m including Arizona as they moved on even quicker than us!) all done tremendous things to surround their qb. 

-Cleveland added big time offensive lineman and some unreal playmakers.  
-Buffalo did similar and traded for one of the best receivers in the game. 
-Arizona have made big moves to help Murray and will only get better. 
-Baltimore not only added good players around Lamar but they tailored their offense around him. 
 

All of those teams not only killed the recruitment but the coaching too. 
 

[KingOfNewYork]

13 minutes ago, xenajets said:

Listen I hear you...Sam didn’t do himself any favours. He never kicked on and going into his fourth year looks more or less the same player we drafted in 2018. I’m convinced it was the right move to trade Sam and start fresh with Zach as well you know. 

I factor so many things into it why it went wrong though. The talent level of the squad when he arrived was god awful. Our drafting had been horrific and that led to us having one of the worst rosters in football. Add in a terrible GM and two poor head coaches and we were pissing in the wind. 
 

The other four teams who took a qb in the first round that year (I’m including Arizona as they moved on even quicker than us!) all done tremendous things to surround their qb. 

-Cleveland added big time offensive lineman and some unreal playmakers.  
-Buffalo did similar and traded for one of the best receivers in the game. 
-Arizona have made big moves to help Murray and will only get better. 
-Baltimore not only added good players around Lamar but they tailored their offense around him. 
 

All of those teams not only killed the recruitment but the coaching too. 
 

These are arguments that make sense but it seems like they're only made for Darnold. Example, you say we didn't add any talent but Bowles and Gase dont get that benefit of the doubt as coaches who had to coach said talent. 

Those other Quarterbacks also made improvements beyond what was around them. Remember Baker regressed in year 2 under Kitchens, he was so bad the media said they should have taken Sam. Josh Allen improved his decision making and ball placement. Lamar Jackson improved as a passer.

A good player will show you more than flashes regardless of circumstance. Year 2 we saw it and a lot of said cut down the turnovers and improve his decision making. He didn't. 

There are guys who are products of what is around them and there are guys who elevate what is around them. 

[Bobby816]

45 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

These are arguments that make sense but it seems like they're only made for Darnold. Example, you say we didn't add any talent but Bowles and Gase dont get that benefit of the doubt as coaches who had to coach said talent. 

Those other Quarterbacks also made improvements beyond what was around them. Remember Baker regressed in year 2 under Kitchens, he was so bad the media said they should have taken Sam. Josh Allen improved his decision making and ball placement. Lamar Jackson improved as a passer.

A good player will show you more than flashes regardless of circumstance. Year 2 we saw it and a lot of said cut down the turnovers and improve his decision making. He didn't. 

There are guys who are products of what is around them and there are guys who elevate what is around them. 

Couldn’t disagree more

[KingOfNewYork]

5 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Couldn’t disagree more

Of course you disagree. So that means we ruined Adam Gase as well by giving him no talent to work with. If so I agree with you. We did Gase so wrong.

[KimuraGod]

10 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

These are arguments that make sense but it seems like they're only made for Darnold. Example, you say we didn't add any talent but Bowles and Gase dont get that benefit of the doubt as coaches who had to coach said talent. 

Those other Quarterbacks also made improvements beyond what was around them. Remember Baker regressed in year 2 under Kitchens, he was so bad the media said they should have taken Sam. Josh Allen improved his decision making and ball placement. Lamar Jackson improved as a passer.

A good player will show you more than flashes regardless of circumstance. Year 2 we saw it and a lot of said cut down the turnovers and improve his decision making. He didn't. 

There are guys who are products of what is around them and there are guys who elevate what is around them. 

I think when you look at all three phases; front office, coaching and playing staff we’ve failed more or less everywhere. Even though decisions from two front office regimes (Idzik & Mac) were complete disasters there’s more the players and coaches could of done.
 

Just think of the sheer amount of failed picks we’ve had from 2013-2019. Like it defies the odds. If a blind man picked names from each round in all these drafts he’d have a better average than the two morons who were running things.   
 

Your point about Gase and Bowles has truth to it. If they were awarded the squad last years SB champs had would they of been better? Of course. Strong o-line, playmakers, good qb, pass rushers, cover comers. All things we’ve lacked for years. So there’s truth to it. However I’m hame decisions from both Bowles and Gase were so poor that the talent wasn’t the only factor.
 

Who remembers Bowles infamous punt on 4th and 2 when we needed the 1st down. That wasn’t just one poor thing he did but more just a complete stupid move that didn’t make any sense especially coming from our HC!

Gase sticking with an 85yr old Frank Gore at 0-12 when we had better, younger alternatives on the roster. Gase would come out in games and march down for a TD and then not put up any points there after. So that showed he could draw up plays but not adapt on the fly. Both coaches were poor and their frailties amplified with a terrible roster. 
 

Look at the end of the day we are using all the prior mistakes we made and look to be finally doing right by our new franchise qb. That’s all anyone can ask now. Regardless who we can ‘blame’ I think really it’s all three phases (maybe four if you include ownership!) Sam may ball out next year with better coaching and talent around him....maybe he will still turn the ball over and not read defenses?! Who knows.
 

But we move on with Zach and already have many more foundations in place for him to succeed. 

[jetfuel34]

The Jets did Sam dirty period. No QB would have done well here. Sam did make some mistakes but he is still 23 and you have QB getting drafted at 23. I still think moving down grabbing picks and keeping San was a better option. Only time will tell now. I will add being a jet fan for 35 years you just know he will be a top 5 QB and we let him go at 23. This is how the Jets work