Jets trade QB Sam Darnold to Carolina

[xrade]

We can argue the points about Sam’s failure all day long and never come to a consensus. In large part because we don’t know, three years into his career, whether or not he could be a good QB. He was done wrong by the FO and coaching. That can’t be denied. He also made some bad decisions, played poorly enough, but also showed some flashed that make us wonder what could have been.

There we’re just too many question marks regarding Sam that it was best to just move on. And, yes, money was a factor. Let’s just hope Zach is the guy. So far it seems the FO has identified the previous regimes shortcomings. Let’s see if the coaches and Zach can fulfill their parts. 

[KimuraGod]

2 hours ago, xrade said:

We can argue the points about Sam’s failure all day long and never come to a consensus. In large part because we don’t know, three years into his career, whether or not he could be a good QB. He was done wrong by the FO and coaching. That can’t be denied. He also made some bad decisions, played poorly enough, but also showed some flashed that make us wonder what could have been.

There we’re just too many question marks regarding Sam that it was best to just move on. And, yes, money was a factor. Let’s just hope Zach is the guy. So far it seems the FO has identified the previous regimes shortcomings. Let’s see if the coaches and Zach can fulfill their parts. 

I think that’s the plain truth. The question “will he will become a franchise qb” remains to be seen but it certainly won’t be in green and white. Certainly going into a good place in Carolina. 

[KingOfNewYork]

3 hours ago, xrade said:

We can argue the points about Sam’s failure all day long and never come to a consensus. In large part because we don’t know, three years into his career, whether or not he could be a good QB. He was done wrong by the FO and coaching. That can’t be denied. He also made some bad decisions, played poorly enough, but also showed some flashed that make us wonder what could have been.

There we’re just too many question marks regarding Sam that it was best to just move on. And, yes, money was a factor. Let’s just hope Zach is the guy. So far it seems the FO has identified the previous regimes shortcomings. Let’s see if the coaches and Zach can fulfill their parts. 

Lol y'all dont get it. 

If Darnold throws an interception you really think he go to his teammates and say yeah I threw that because Douglas signed/drafted you instead of someone else or yeah I threw that because of Gase's play call. 

Or he misses a guy by 3 yards and he says yeah man DeAndre Hopkins catches that man too bad we didn't trade for him like Arizona did. 

That's my issue with the excuses, he was bad for us last year period. No but his teammates this, no but his coaches that. It's never his fault. 

I knew he was cooked when I watch Joe Flacco stand tall in a pocket and have a better passer rating than Darnold. 

Sam had an 84.3 passer rating in 2019 which isn't terrible, Joe then upgraded the OL and drafted Mims. Yes he let Robby walk but we also had Herndon returning from missing the year. So the team was better around Darnold overall and he got worse but the Jets did him dirty? I understand liking the kid because he's a good person but these excuses are ridiculous. 

[KingOfNewYork]

Thing is the mistakes have been made since 2010/2011 and eventually it all just bottoms out and that's what happened. Acting like this is simply the tragedy of Sam Darnold is hella annoying. 

[KimuraGod]

13 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Lol y'all dont get it. 

If Darnold throws an interception you really think he go to his teammates and say yeah I threw that because Douglas signed/drafted you instead of someone else or yeah I threw that because of Gase's play call. 

Or he misses a guy by 3 yards and he says yeah man DeAndre Hopkins catches that man too bad we didn't trade for him like Arizona did. 

That's my issue with the excuses, he was bad for us last year period. No but his teammates this, no but his coaches that. It's never his fault. 

I knew he was cooked when I watch Joe Flacco stand tall in a pocket and have a better passer rating than Darnold. 

Sam had an 84.3 passer rating in 2019 which isn't terrible, Joe then upgraded the OL and drafted Mims. Yes he let Robby walk but we also had Herndon returning from missing the year. So the team was better around Darnold overall and he got worse but the Jets did him dirty? I understand liking the kid because he's a good person but these excuses are ridiculous. 

Do you really feel that both the front office and coaching staff during Sams reign here can honestly lay down at night knowing they did everything they could to make him the franchise qb we all do desperately wanted him to be?
 

There’s loads of points to be made about Sams regression and the fact he hasn’t really improved since his USC days.
 

But hypothetically....if he balls out for Carolina would that make you change your opinion? 

[xrade]

10 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Joe then upgraded the OL and drafted Mims

Did he really upgrade the OL last year?  They were bad outside of OT. They were very weak up the middle which gase liked running into every play with an old RB. Mims missed half the season.

Like it or not, a young QB needed more. As they all do when going to a talent bereft team. Having Hogan and Jeff Smith start 4 games for us is a travesty. Do you think they were worthy to start?  As for Herndon, I assume you are claiming he was misused. Yes?  I won’t argue that but when he had the opportunity how did he do?  The fact is we still don’t know if Herndon can be the impact TE we were all hoping.

I have repeatedly argued that Sam is not a very good QB but there is room for doubt in my mind simply because he did not have the OL and WR that would cause me to say “Yes, it is all on Sam”.  Yeah, I get it. 

[KingOfNewYork]

7 minutes ago, xenajets said:

Do you really feel that both the front office and coaching staff during Sams reign here can honestly lay down at night knowing they did everything they could to make him the franchise qb we all do desperately wanted him to be?
 

There’s loads of points to be made about Sams regression and the fact he hasn’t really improved since his USC days.
 

But hypothetically....if he balls out for Carolina would that make you change your opinion? 

The front office and staff worked hard to try and win, they did what they felt was best but it didn't work out so no of course they cant live with the results. These guys did a bad job results wise but to act like they didn't try/work hard is ridiculous. 

Yes there are loads of points but it seems like its only "The Jets ruined Sam" like I said everyone gets blame except him and even when people pretend to hold him accountable they still blame the team. 

No because if he got better it would mean he improved the internal issues he had. Better decision making and ball placement and he's on the Jets still. But he couldn't/didn't do that for us. 

See I think again people aren't realizing my issues with Sam. All he needs is to make better decisions with the ball, get better ball placement and minimize the unforced errors. He beats himself a lot. That's an honest assessment, the whole he needs more talent around him thing is a crutch, it'll possible turn him into the best version of Jared Goff and I think he's better than that he just has to find his game. 

[KingOfNewYork]

11 minutes ago, xrade said:

Did he really upgrade the OL last year?  They were bad outside of OT. They were very weak up the middle which gase liked running into every play with an old RB. Mims missed half the season.

Like it or not, a young QB needed more. As they all do when going to a talent bereft team. Having Hogan and Jeff Smith start 4 games for us is a travesty. Do you think they were worthy to start?  As for Herndon, I assume you are claiming he was misused. Yes?  I won’t argue that but when he had the opportunity how did he do?  The fact is we still don’t know if Herndon can be the impact TE we were all hoping.

I have repeatedly argued that Sam is not a very good QB but there is room for doubt in my mind simply because he did not have the OL and WR that would cause me to say “Yes, it is all on Sam”.  Yeah, I get it. 

Becton and Fant were upgrades, McGovern was an upgrade from Kalil, GVR and Winters were a wash, Lewis was a returning OL. So while they OL wasn't you know great they were upgraded. 

Hogan and Smith and Malone didn't need to be starting at all but again that's blaming everyone but him for HIS flaws. Let's put it this way, sure a guy isn't open but you can place the ball to where only he can make a play on it or throw it away. Far too often the ball is behind a receiver(where the defender can get a hand on it) or he sails it and its picked off. For some reason these things are hard to admit for guys but like they're factual, its on the film. 

Accuracy is a skill that shouldn't be dependent on who you are throwing to. Decision making is a trait that shouldn't be dependent on who you are throwing the ball to. That's really what I'm getting at.

[xrade]

50 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Accuracy is a skill that shouldn't be dependent on who you are throwing to. Decision making is a trait that shouldn't be dependent on who you are throwing the ball to. That's really what I'm getting at.

I don’t think anyone is arguing those deficiencies in Sam, least of all me. I just don’t get how you could look at the lack of help via FA or draft and think it is still mostly, if not all, on Sam. I don’t get how you could look at the coaching staff and still say it is on Sam. All three contributed. What % each of those factors did is hard to determine.

I know you’re a big gase fan. I will not rehash the old arguments about him. But you just seem to get a little defensive when people criticize his coaching.

[Bobby816]

Difference is Gase was never and still isn’t a good HC. He should have never got the job.

Darnold is 23. Still too early to draft him. And I can say confidently that I think he has a good career in CAR. And I doubt Gase ever has a good career as a HC.

[KingOfNewYork]

28 minutes ago, xrade said:

I don’t think anyone is arguing those deficiencies in Sam, least of all me. I just don’t get how you could look at the lack of help via FA or draft and think it is still mostly, if not all, on Sam. I don’t get how you could look at the coaching staff and still say it is on Sam. All three contributed. What % each of those factors did is hard to determine.

I know you’re a big gase fan. I will not rehash the old arguments about him. But you just seem to get a little defensive when people criticize his coaching.

I just used Gase as a contradiction to the talent argument. The Quarterback gets excuses for the talent around him, the coach is told he has to make it work. 

It’s unfair to judge Sam for what’s around him, he cannot control that. We can only judge him for the things he has control over and his accuracy and ball placement along with his decision making was bad. Any factors going into it are opinions obviously but the fact remains he was bad beyond what was around him. 

Going to Carolina he still has to improve, he cannot play the same way he did here and thing well I have Robby and Moore and Marshall and Tremble and CMC so I’m gonna be a good QB now. 

[KingOfNewYork]

27 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Difference is Gase was never and still isn’t a good HC. He should have never got the job.

Darnold is 23. Still too early to draft him. And I can say confidently that I think he has a good career in CAR. And I doubt Gase ever has a good career as a HC.

How do we know if Gase is a good coach or not if he didn’t have talent around him to be successful?

See how ridiculous the argument sounds?

[KimuraGod]

1 hour ago, KingOfNewYork said:

The front office and staff worked hard to try and win, they did what they felt was best but it didn't work out so no of course they cant live with the results. These guys did a bad job results wise but to act like they didn't try/work hard is ridiculous. 

Yes there are loads of points but it seems like its only "The Jets ruined Sam" like I said everyone gets blame except him and even when people pretend to hold him accountable they still blame the team. 

No because if he got better it would mean he improved the internal issues he had. Better decision making and ball placement and he's on the Jets still. But he couldn't/didn't do that for us. 

See I think again people aren't realizing my issues with Sam. All he needs is to make better decisions with the ball, get better ball placement and minimize the unforced errors. He beats himself a lot. That's an honest assessment, the whole he needs more talent around him thing is a crutch, it'll possible turn him into the best version of Jared Goff and I think he's better than that he just has to find his game. 

They may have tried to help improve the team but ultimately they didn’t and it cost both Idzik and Mac their jobs. 
 

Sam looked horrific out there at times. In the Baldy breakdown of Becton you actually see just how bad some of his throws were. Like I said Sam didn’t do enough to evade any criticism and my original post in the video wasn’t a bashing of the coaches and GM’s just more of a ‘can’t believe it didn’t work out’ statement.  

[KimuraGod]

9 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

How do we know if Gase is a good coach or not if he didn’t have talent around him to be successful?

See how ridiculous the argument sounds?

Gase wasn’t given a good roster but some could argue he actually alienated his best players (of which there weren’t many!) so that’s not good leadership. 
 

Also unlike a quarterback it actually is the coaches job to get the best out of his players and develop the young talent. Something Gase couldn’t/didn’t do.
 

His decision making during games was poor and I think there’s not many Jet fans unhappy he was fired. In fact I’d say most were pumped to hear he was sacked. 

[KingOfNewYork]

1 hour ago, xenajets said:

They may have tried to help improve the team but ultimately they didn’t and it cost both Idzik and Mac their jobs. 
 

Sam looked horrific out there at times. In the Baldy breakdown of Becton you actually see just how bad some of his throws were. Like I said Sam didn’t do enough to evade any criticism and my original post in the video wasn’t a bashing of the coaches and GM’s just more of a ‘can’t believe it didn’t work out’ statement.  

The reason I dont blame the talent around him is because if he played well I wouldn't give the credit to them. When Sam played good it was with the same guys he played bad with.

Macc and Idzik did horrible jobs, Gase didn't do the best he could either but thats based on the things they were in control of.