Jets trade QB Sam Darnold to Carolina

[Bianconero]

Interesting tid-bit about our interview with Rhule

[drew39k]

58 minutes ago, xenajets said:

And if we didn’t draft Wilson and he became the next Mahomes whilst we let Sam walk next year after another bad year then what?!?!? 
 

Every deal has the potential to be successful or unsuccessful. The trade was a good one considering it’s a qb rich draft (probs the best one in years!) 

I'll play.

Option one 

We take Wilson and he is great, Sam sucks in Carolina - Big Win for the Jets

Option two

We take Wilson He sucks and Sam is great - Big Loss for us

Option three:

We take Wilson and he is great, Sam is great in Carolina - Loss for us because we had a QB and could have flipped the value from Wilsons pick to make this team better. We also fail to capitalize on Sam performing well in Carolina because we only got a second and not a conditional second. Because of this the 2nd we get is a late second when it could have been a late first

Option 4 

We Take Wilson He sucks, Sam Sucks in carolina - Loss for us - we would have been better to move down and use the value of pick to to build a team and draft a QB next year with a better team to put him on.

Option 5

We keep Sam - He busts  - Wilson Is great - Loss for us, we managed to get additional draft picks so we can still get a QB next year, and with Sam sucking the pick will likely be high, but we did miss out on a great QB

Option 6

We kept sam he busts- Wilson also busts Win for us. We didn't draft a bust in wilson and were able to get a ton of draft capital for pick 2

Option 7

We keep Sam - He is good, Wilson busts - Huge Win for us - get additional picks on trade down and have a young franchise QB.

There are FAR more likely chances to be successful sticking with Sam than there are by trading him and drafting Wilson. Clearly Joe chose to gamble and the odds are stacked against him that this gamble will payoff. Also, your point about calling this a QB rich draft is pretty invalid. Where were Wilson, Lance and Jones ranked this time last year? This was the Lawrence draft, and maybe Fields would be a 1st round pick Now suddenly Fields is being called the 5th QB to be taken despite ending the this past college season as the expected second best QB. Its all about recency hype. Every year there are QBs that come out of nowhere on the hype train to be "can't miss studs". Wilson is no different than someone like Trubisky in that regard. There will be QBs just like him next year. Hell, look at the draft we got Darnold in. That was the suck for Sam year, then after the season the hype train for Baker pushed him over Darnold in the draft. That draft was also considered"loaded at QB btw, and so far Baker has been questionable at best, only really looking good when cleveland loaded up on skills players(something maybe we should have done?) Rosen being DOA, and Darnold apparently busting here. Allen was properly developed in Buffalo where, once again, they did this crazy thing called getting talent around their young QB to help make the game easier for him...(probably should have done that here huh). Baltimore had success with Jackson too, but it was a gimmicky run first offense that needs to prove it can be sustained at this point(not saying Jackson didn't have a great year) 

 

 

[xrade]

6 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Unless the kid looks totally lost and needs more time he's likely starting from day 1.

I am not so sure about that just based on the way JD approaches things. Very calm and calculating. He will not be pushed into doing something he is not comfortable doing. If his coaching staff says the kid is ready and he concurs, the kid will play and not a game before that.

I guess it will be a little clearer if we get a vet QB or not. There would be a certain amount of irony if we trade for Bridgewater. 

[Rockice_8]

2 minutes ago, xrade said:

I am not so sure about that just based on the way JD approaches things. Very calm and calculating. He will not be pushed into doing something he is not comfortable doing. If his coaching staff says the kid is ready and he concurs, the kid will play and not a game before that.

I guess it will be a little clearer if we get a vet QB or not. There would be a certain amount of irony if we trade for Bridgewater. 

I think we basically said the same thing.  Wilson will start when ready.  We'll bring in a vet no question its only a matter of when not if.  If it's close in camp obviously the kid will start though.

If he is comfortable with the play book and can protect himself with reading defenses then you start him.  No need to wait we have a veteran C to help him along.

[Rockice_8]

21 minutes ago, drew39k said:

I'll play.

Option one 

We take Wilson and he is great, Sam sucks in Carolina - Big Win for the Jets

Option two

We take Wilson He sucks and Sam is great - Big Loss for us

Option three:

We take Wilson and he is great, Sam is great in Carolina - Loss for us because we had a QB and could have flipped the value from Wilsons pick to make this team better. We also fail to capitalize on Sam performing well in Carolina because we only got a second and not a conditional second. Because of this the 2nd we get is a late second when it could have been a late first

Option 4 

We Take Wilson He sucks, Sam Sucks in carolina - Loss for us - we would have been better to move down and use the value of pick to to build a team and draft a QB next year with a better team to put him on.

Option 5

We keep Sam - He busts  - Wilson Is great - Loss for us, we managed to get additional draft picks so we can still get a QB next year, and with Sam sucking the pick will likely be high, but we did miss out on a great QB

Option 6

We kept sam he busts- Wilson also busts Win for us. We didn't draft a bust in wilson and were able to get a ton of draft capital for pick 2

Option 7

We keep Sam - He is good, Wilson busts - Huge Win for us - get additional picks on trade down and have a young franchise QB.

There are FAR more likely chances to be successful sticking with Sam than there are by trading him and drafting Wilson. Clearly Joe chose to gamble and the odds are stacked against him that this gamble will payoff. Also, your point about calling this a QB rich draft is pretty invalid. Where were Wilson, Lance and Jones ranked this time last year? This was the Lawrence draft, and maybe Fields would be a 1st round pick Now suddenly Fields is being called the 5th QB to be taken despite ending the this past college season as the expected second best QB. Its all about recency hype. Every year there are QBs that come out of nowhere on the hype train to be "can't miss studs". Wilson is no different than someone like Trubisky in that regard. There will be QBs just like him next year. Hell, look at the draft we got Darnold in. That was the suck for Sam year, then after the season the hype train for Baker pushed him over Darnold in the draft. That draft was also considered"loaded at QB btw, and so far Baker has been questionable at best, only really looking good when cleveland loaded up on skills players(something maybe we should have done?) Rosen being DOA, and Darnold apparently busting here. Allen was properly developed in Buffalo where, once again, they did this crazy thing called getting talent around their young QB to help make the game easier for him...(probably should have done that here huh). Baltimore had success with Jackson too, but it was a gimmicky run first offense that needs to prove it can be sustained at this point(not saying Jackson didn't have a great year) 

 

 

The odds are stacked against him?  No the odds are stacked against Sam being good with three years of garbage tape.

Next year's QB class looks horrible and the idea that with extra picks we are guaranteed a QB is just not true.  Why again do we want to trade down for extra picks and then use them to possibly trade up next year for a lesser QB prospect?

Sam is on a career path to becoming a poor mans Jameis.  No matter what happens with Wilson, Sam will continue to suck and it was a move we had to make.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Rockice_8

[Dr.O]

The important thing is that Wilson/Fields aren’t starting at the same level of surrounding talent that Same was, yes it needs to continue to improve but it’s a MUCH better starting point than Sam started with

[drew39k]

22 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Growing pains will be had but worth it when 2022 rolls around and we're pushing for a playoff spot.

Unless the kid looks totally lost and needs more time he's likely starting from day 1.

TC will be normal this year so he should have enough time to get caught up to speed since everyone will be learning the new system at the same time.  

I'm not really sure how else to explain it. 

Traditionally speaking you QBs greatly benefit from sitting for a season before starting. They also typically struggle much more when working with a rookie head coach. We just watched this blow up in our faces with Darnold, and rather than learn from the lesson the idea is to repeat the exact same process and hope for different results? "Growing Pains" don't help a young QB. What you are describing is a QB being put into a bad situation where he is going to develop bad habits because he hasn't been properly groomed and prepared to take over the position. He will not have the benefit of an experienced offensive line that has a working knowledge of the offense so they can help with line calls and reading the defenses. He will have the misfortune of dealing with a cast of receivers that are all learning a new offense which will lead to confusion with routes and miscommunications on the field that will result in turnovers.

[drew39k]

Just now, Dr.O said:

The important thing is that Wilson/Fields aren’t starting at the same level of surrounding talent that Same was, yes it needs to continue to improve but it’s a MUCH better starting point than Sam started with

Is it? They are coming into a 2 win team that was able to win exactly zero games in the past two years without Sam in the starting spot.

[Dr.O]

2 minutes ago, drew39k said:

Is it? They are coming into a 2 win team that was able to win exactly zero games in the past two years without Sam in the starting spot.

Davis, Mims, Crowder, Cole, and Herndon is much better than Sam’s rookie group. The OL is a bit better as well. 

[KingOfNewYork]

3 minutes ago, drew39k said:

Is it? They are coming into a 2 win team that was able to win exactly zero games in the past two years without Sam in the starting spot.

They're not coming into a 2 win team, that team no longer exists. 

[jetjuice]

1 hour ago, Malik said:

You don't draft a guy #2 overall to sit him in 2021. The only notable QBs you have sat recently where Aaron Rodgers (who was behind a top 10 all time QB) and Alex Smith (a pro bowl QB). The likelihood of Darnold immediately becoming a good starter is unlikely. QBs who have played as poorly as Sam has played have very rarely even even become average. Also you're assuming that the Panthers would even consider making it conditional. They were the only team fighting to get him

I don't agree with him but you're wrong too. Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes ring a bell? Also, 2005 isn't that recent. 

 

[KingOfNewYork]

26 minutes ago, Bianconero said:

Interesting tid-bit about our interview with Rhule

Sam's a good guy, he just throws too many picks. Panthers run a vertical offense so hopefully he adapts well. 

[jetjuice]

10 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

The odds are stacked against him?  No the odds are stacked against Sam being good with three years of garbage tape.

Next year's QB class looks horrible and the idea that with extra picks we are guaranteed a QB is just not true.  Why again do we want to trade down for extra picks and then use them to possibly trade up next year for a lesser QB prospect?

Sam is on a career path to becoming a poor mans Jameis.  No matter what happens with Wilson, Sam will continue to suck and it was a move we had to make.

Not only that, but the entire scenario is comparing apples to oranges. Sam's performance in Carolina is not indicative of what he would've done with an entirely different staff and supporting cast in NY. 

And @drew39k you made zero mention of the cost of each move from a CAP standpoint. Carolina is committing $18.8mil to Darnold in 2022 by picking up his option. We now have 4 years of Wilson on a rookie contract.  

[drew39k]

5 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Lol this post.  The odds are stacked against him?  No the odds are stacked against Sam being good with three years of garbage tape.

Next year's QB class looks horrible and the idea that with extra picks we are guaranteed a QB is just not true.  Why again do we want to trade down for extra picks and then use them to possibly trade up next year for a lesser QB prospect?

Sam is on a career path to becoming a poor mans Jameis.  No matter what happens with Wilson, Sam will continue to suck and it was a move we had to make.

Odds - chances of outcome being successful vs unsuccessful. Note the various options available and their potential outcomes. There are more outcomes that lead to failure than success under the current direction. It's pretty straight forward.

I don't know how to break it to you but this QB class outside of Lawrence looked horrid this time last year too. Wilson wasn't even a sure thing to be the starter on his own college team dude.  

Sam has plenty of bad tape for sure but he also has loads of highlights and was saddled with an unwinnable situation. Clearly the Panthers felt he has a chance to be a good QB too or they wouldn't have traded away three picks including a second rounder for him. Mind you this panthers team would has Robby Anderson who played with Sam and Matt Rule who wanted to coach Sam here( but we were dumb and didn't hire him because of some power trip garbage)

I'm glad you have a crystal ball though, and know without a doubt that Sam will Suck and Wilson will be Mahomes.

 

[jetjuice]

10 minutes ago, Dr.O said:

The important thing is that Wilson/Fields aren’t starting at the same level of surrounding talent that Same was, yes it needs to continue to improve but it’s a MUCH better starting point than Sam started with

Why are we saying Wilson/Fields?

It's Wilson. Fields will be lucky to be the third QB drafted.