Jon Gruden, Raiders: Is the Marriage Stale?

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

In a perfect world David Irving and Cory Littleton return to form, Arnette lives up to his draft status, and Abram plays better exclusively in the box. 

Yeh, and Ferrell becomes the player we wanted him to be, he could make a big difference if he can get 8 sacks and consistent pressure while being very stout. 

We have lots of players with latent talent or guys who haven't produced and who could break out or reproduce past form so I do expect some will but whether it's enough to really move the needle, I'm not entirely sure.

Even if we get a 50/50 split and Irving produces whilst Thomas doesn't or Abram produces whilst Arnette doesn't or Littleton produces whilst Ferrell doesn't we should have a couple of raffle tickets come up! I'm not sure how much trust I should put in Gus Bradley and how big an impact he could potentially make as we've seen this script before of course but I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he'll also make a positive difference.........

[NYRaider]

57 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

We have lots of players with latent talent or guys who haven't produced and who could break out or reproduce past form so I do expect some will but whether it's enough to really move the needle, I'm not entirely sure.

If David Irving/Cory Littleton return to form, Crosby/Ferrell/Abram/Arnette/Mullen make a leap, Yannick lives up to his contract, Kwit/Morrow build off of last year, and either Joseph or a rookie FS play well, then our defense might be pretty good.

[MrOaktown_56]

2 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Yeh, and Ferrell becomes the player we wanted him to be, he could make a big difference if he can get 8 sacks and consistent pressure while being very stout. 

We have lots of players with latent talent or guys who haven't produced and who could break out or reproduce past form so I do expect some will but whether it's enough to really move the needle, I'm not entirely sure.

Even if we get a 50/50 split and Irving produces whilst Thomas doesn't or Abram produces whilst Arnette doesn't or Littleton produces whilst Ferrell doesn't we should have a couple of raffle tickets come up! I'm not sure how much trust I should put in Gus Bradley and how big an impact he could potentially make as we've seen this script before of course but I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he'll also make a positive difference.........

He definitely could get a lot of pressure. Idk about 8 sacks, he may be rotating in and out a lot with Yannick/Maxx. That being said, I think our edge group should take a big step next year. Even Nassib should look a little better, considering he'll be playing more base end/run downs to keep Maxx/Yannick fresh.

[Frankie2Gunz]

Vegas odds for Raiders not to make the playoffs sit at -350.  Yikes.

That number is indicative of how I feel about this team and how we have handled this offseason so far.  Once again I am not impressed and Gruden is one of the main factors as to why we are so devoid of proven, above average talent and depth.  

[BayRaider]

50 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Vegas odds for Raiders not to make the playoffs sit at -350.  Yikes.

That number is indicative of how I feel about this team and how we have handled this offseason so far.  Once again I am not impressed and Gruden is one of the main factors as to why we are so devoid of proven, above average talent and depth.  

Saw that as well. I actually think the Raiders going into 2021 wayyy underrated and Chargers going in overrated. I’m expecting 10-7 and 6th or 7th seed. We are playing the NFC East for crying out loud. 
 

If we can’t make the playoffs and go 3-1 vs the NFCE, Jon has gotta go. 

[Darbsk]

4 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Saw that as well. I actually think the Raiders going into 2021 wayyy underrated and Chargers going in overrated. I’m expecting 10-7 and 6th or 7th seed. We are playing the NFC East for crying out loud. 
 

If we can’t make the playoffs and go 3-1 vs the NFCE, Jon has gotta go. 

Don't think the NFC East will be such whipping boys this year though, Washington could be a pretty good team, excellent defence but in flux a bit at QB. Dallas should be one of those hot/cold teams, they gave some very good offence players and depends on how our D looks........ I'd be surprised if we win more than 2-2 against that division. Agree we'll be undervalued and the Chargers will once again be overrated though 😁 

[Darbsk]

8 hours ago, NYRaider said:

If David Irving/Cory Littleton return to form, Crosby/Ferrell/Abram/Arnette/Mullen make a leap, Yannick lives up to his contract, Kwit/Morrow build off of last year, and either Joseph or a rookie FS play well, then our defense might be pretty good.

Oh, I definitely think it's possible that Littleton plays a lot better, I for one am a fan of Ferrell so I think he'll be good (though maybe not a great pass rusher), Crosby is pretty good already and there's is room and scope for Abram to knuckle down and be a good player as well as Arnette looking better with an off season and TC, as you know I also really like Joseph too. One of the DTs could also break out as we do have a few lotto tickets there.

But, and this is the bit I have difficulty with, that scenario requires a lot of guys to get better, which they all could do individually and none or very few to regress, so I think it's most likely that some will progress and some will break out but the odds would say a few will fall flat too. I'm not saying we can't improve overall but we need a lot to go well and very little to go badly to actually be a good defence. Unfortunately, I see some improvement but not enough to take us out of the bottom third of defences sadly. 

[dante9876]

10 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Saw that as well. I actually think the Raiders going into 2021 wayyy underrated and Chargers going in overrated. I’m expecting 10-7 and 6th or 7th seed. We are playing the NFC East for crying out loud. 
 

If we can’t make the playoffs and go 3-1 vs the NFCE, Jon has gotta go. 

I disagree. I think chargers, Broncos and raiders should all be closely ranked together, with chargers being in front. But it's close. I just think Anthony Lynn was an awful head coach that cost them a few games. If I was to bet it I'll bet no afc west teams make playoffs outside kc. 

[ronjon1990]

14 hours ago, NYRaider said:

If David Irving/Cory Littleton return to form, Crosby/Ferrell/Abram/Arnette/Mullen make a leap, Yannick lives up to his contract, Kwit/Morrow build off of last year, and either Joseph or a rookie FS play well, then our defense might be pretty good.

Soooo....if ALL of our D improves....ouch. How humbling. 

Mullen, Yannick, Kwit, and Joseph should all be pretty good. Littleton is a wildcard for me- the scheme change either helps him a ton or he's just a guy who played well once on a good D.

Given last year, I'd say if we have 6+ guys on D playing up to par, we have a chance at improving a good bit. Toss in 2 rookies, and 8 guys....I like it as a start. 

No D is ever going to not have weaknesses/weak links. Abram, Arnette, whoever we have playing the slot....those are who I see as our weak links pending the draft. But hey, if we can maintain even decent coverage and actually pressure QBs, that's leaps and bounds ahead of last year. 

Yannick is good. The rest of the DL is a ?, but a new DT should make a big improvement. Ferrell, to me, is just a guy. But if we have 2-3 guys worth starting, we're good. I'll give them 2.5*/5. Could be a 3+ if we get a DT who can wreak havoc. 

Littleton is boom or bust. Kwit is $. So Morrow being a JAG is fine. 3*. Potentially a very good unit if all 3 work out. 

Mullen is good. Our FS should be better. Slot and Arnette are meh types. 2*. Depending on what we do at FS and SCB, could easily be a 3* unit. SS is going to remain a weakness, imo. 

So I'm guessing an overall of 2.5* with a potential to a hit a solid 3.5* if the right guys come along and make the right impact. 

Heck of a lot better than last year, but....man it really really hinges on the draft. 

[drfrey13]

12 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Saw that as well. I actually think the Raiders going into 2021 wayyy underrated and Chargers going in overrated. I’m expecting 10-7 and 6th or 7th seed. We are playing the NFC East for crying out loud. 
 

If we can’t make the playoffs and go 3-1 vs the NFCE, Jon has gotta go. 

Bad news we play in NY.  Good news is the other NFCE away game is in Dallas.  I think both will be 10 am starts.  This team needs to figure out how to win at 10 am and the East coast.

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, dante9876 said:

I disagree. I think chargers, Broncos and raiders should all be closely ranked together, with chargers being in front. But it's close. I just think Anthony Lynn was an awful head coach that cost them a few games. If I was to bet it I'll bet no afc west teams make playoffs outside kc. 

I actually think we could be the division sending 3 lol. 

The top of the conference is obviously KC with Buffalo and Baltimore flanking them, followed I guess by Tennessee. The divisions as a whole just aren't very deep outside of the AFCW and MAYBE the AFCN. Miami has to keep momentum with Tua, New England seems lost, Indy is in flux, Houston has a problem. Pittsburgh and Cleveland are absolute wild cards and could go either way without surprising anyone. The other teams not mentioned are the pits: Jacksonville, NYJ, Cincy. 

We're RIGHT there. LA should be stout. And Denver, if they get the QB spot cooking at all, is dangerous. 

[ronjon1990]

12 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Saw that as well. I actually think the Raiders going into 2021 wayyy underrated and Chargers going in overrated. I’m expecting 10-7 and 6th or 7th seed. We are playing the NFC East for crying out loud. 
 

If we can’t make the playoffs and go 3-1 vs the NFCE, Jon has gotta go. 

I wouldn't be too sure about our chances against the NFCE.

Dallas should rebound and our secondary would have to put on a clinic to slow down their WRs. 

Phlly could be a trap. I'm high on Hurts, and they've got some ok talent.

New York will have Barkley back and they've gotten better on D. 

Washington has a great D. They also played as a full team very well last year regardless of adversity. Heck, they almost took down Tampa Bay....with a guy who wasn't even on their opening roster playing QB. I actually think they win that game under most circumstances. 

The division lost a lot of its biggest stars last year and Philadelphia imploded. That shouldn't happen again this year.

[NYRaider]

9 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Soooo....if ALL of our D improves....ouch. How humbling. 

Mullen, Yannick, Kwit, and Joseph should all be pretty good. Littleton is a wildcard for me- the scheme change either helps him a ton or he's just a guy who played well once on a good D.

Given last year, I'd say if we have 6+ guys on D playing up to par, we have a chance at improving a good bit. Toss in 2 rookies, and 8 guys....I like it as a start. 

No D is ever going to not have weaknesses/weak links. Abram, Arnette, whoever we have playing the slot....those are who I see as our weak links pending the draft. But hey, if we can maintain even decent coverage and actually pressure QBs, that's leaps and bounds ahead of last year. 

Yannick is good. The rest of the DL is a ?, but a new DT should make a big improvement. Ferrell, to me, is just a guy. But if we have 2-3 guys worth starting, we're good. I'll give them 2.5*/5. Could be a 3+ if we get a DT who can wreak havoc. 

Littleton is boom or bust. Kwit is $. So Morrow being a JAG is fine. 3*. Potentially a very good unit if all 3 work out. 

Mullen is good. Our FS should be better. Slot and Arnette are meh types. 2*. Depending on what we do at FS and SCB, could easily be a 3* unit. SS is going to remain a weakness, imo. 

So I'm guessing an overall of 2.5* with a potential to a hit a solid 3.5* if the right guys come along and make the right impact. 

Heck of a lot better than last year, but....man it really really hinges on the draft. 

Yeah we have to wait to see what happens in the draft but we really didn't add any difference makers defensively in free agency other than Yannick so our defense improving will really be dependent on our young players improving. 

As of right now I feel pretty good about Mullen, Kwit, Yannick, Morrow and Crosby. I think those 4 are the only guys you can count on to be average to above average next season. With our two biggest wild cards being Cory Littleton and David Irving as guys that have produced at high levels in the past on other teams and are still in their athletic primes. Littleton had two really good years for the Rams when he was in a WLB role where he was kept clean and allowed to roam around and make plays, hopefully in Bradley's system we'll use him in a similar fashion. Irving has flashed elite pass rush ability although it was a pretty small sample size in Dallas. 

Abram, Arnette, and Ferrell are all guys that I personally don't have a ton of faith in but will all be guys that play a lot regardless due to their draft status. 

[drfrey13]

13 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Mullen is good. Our FS should be better. Slot and Arnette are meh types. 2*. Depending on what we do at FS and SCB, could easily be a 3* unit. SS is going to remain a weakness, imo. 

I can not remember where I read it but there was an article about Robertson getting a chance to start.  I assumed it meant on the outside.  If that is the case and he wins the #2 we could try Arnette in the slot.  I have already stated that if you look at their college games Arnette played his best ball in the slot and Robertson on the outside.  I think this might have to do with the coaching staff pigeon holing the players based on size.  If you look at their play it is obvious where both belong.  His size might hurt his ability against larger WRs but he reminds me of Eric Allen as his ceiling.

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, ronjon1990 said:

I wouldn't be too sure about our chances against the NFCE.

Dallas should rebound and our secondary would have to put on a clinic to slow down their WRs. 

Phlly could be a trap. I'm high on Hurts, and they've got some ok talent.

New York will have Barkley back and they've gotten better on D. 

Washington has a great D. They also played as a full team very well last year regardless of adversity. Heck, they almost took down Tampa Bay....with a guy who wasn't even on their opening roster playing QB. I actually think they win that game under most circumstances. 

The division lost a lot of its biggest stars last year and Philadelphia imploded. That shouldn't happen again this year.

Yeah I don't think any of those games will be easy for us. 

If Dak is at 100% they'll have one of the best offenses in the league and it's a road game. 

Philadelphia is a wild card as you said and Hurts should be better in year two so if our defense isn't better they could light us up.

The Giants have done a pretty good job of adding talent around Jones and it's a road game that could potentially be in the snow.

And WFT has a very good defense and Fitzmagic at QB.