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Mahomes broke the QB position in the NFL


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It’s easier to find good QBs now and they’re usually good as rookies or 2nd year players. There used to be **** loads of busts and it took QBs a while to get good. So I think teams were scared to start over. And if you got a QB like Dalton and won games you didn’t even think about it.

Playcalling has gotten much better. There’s not as many blocking specialists who can’t catch. Better use of presnap motions. RPOs. You just really shouldn’t need several years to figure it out anymore.

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9 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

The problem is that guys like Mahomes don't come around very often.

They never come around. One has been, and that's it. Rodgers is close, I guess

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8 hours ago, bigbadbuff said:

People said Josh Allen sucked and the Bills should’ve moved on. 

I’ll leave it at that

Tangible improvements year on year. 

Darnold sucks, then sucked again

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10 hours ago, mission27 said:

@TLO

But the last five years... 

  • Goff was a 2x pro-bowler and made it to a Super Bowl, but a couple of meh seasons and he's gone
  • Wentz played at an MVP level for a year and was average/above average for two more.  Gone after one bad year
  • Paxton Lynch got 4 starts
  • Trubisky made a Pro Bowl, struggled in 2019, and was below average in 2020 before getting benched (yes I know he didn't pass the eye test, but on paper he really wasn't having a terrible year)
  • Darnold is already a bust at 23
  • Josh Rosen got 13 starts in Arizona before being traded so his team could draft another QB in the first round the next year.  Same thing happened to him in Miami  
  • Daniel Jones has been mediocre but shown flashes.  A lot of people are ready to label him a bust at 23. 
  • Dwayne Haskins has barely been given a chance in Washington and people are over it
  • Plenty of people thought Miami should dump Tua and draft another QB after one (decent) year... the guy who everyone was tanking for and calling a generational prospect a year or two ago

 

I make the 'people' you refer to right. The proof is there. 

- With Goff, you need only look at passing charts and stats to know he's been awful. Then take a look at McVay trying his hardest not to throw him under the bus, then DID throw him under the bus, then traded his A55. This is proof that Goff isn't up to it and McVay was significantly hampered by Goff not being willing to throw over 20 yards

- Yeah Wentz only had one bad yeah. It probably is too early. It was historically bad though...

- Trubisky is a blown assignment. Pace was mentioning his accuracy and ability to read the field when he was drafted - WOW!! The opposite is true. This needs to be written off as a bad job and all relevant parties should move on and never let it happen again

- Darnold sucks and turns the ball over all the time. He's had a bit of time to prove otherwise.

- Yeah I think Rosen was ditched very easily actually. Stats show he was incredibly bad though. 42 out of 42 for adjusted yards per completion.

- Are people labelling Jones a bust? I can see improvement for sure

- There's probably some behind scene stuff from Haskins. On field product isn't great, off-field is maybe worse

- Too early for Tua to be let go. Are people saying this?

 

I think with most of them, the judgment has been fair. A few let go too early. 

I don't think this is all in the quest for Mahomes at all. I think it's in the quest just to be able to win the division.

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One of the largest factors are that coaches aren’t given anytime. They use to win right away or they’re out the door. So there will be more QBs that show something quickly because if not the team loses, and the next coach might’ve looking toward a fresh start. Lots of turn over at position coach/coordinator positions as well. 

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12 hours ago, bigbadbuff said:

People said Josh Allen sucked and the Bills should’ve moved on. 

I’ll leave it at that

This. Allen looked like complete crap in his rookie season, showed signs of progress in his sophomore season (still had some wrinkles to iron out) before becoming an MVP candidate in his third season.

It's not the quarterback, but part of the reason why PIT hasn't really had any long "Dark Ages" stretches since the 70's is because they've only had three head coaches and gen eral managers in that span. They might have had some disappointing seasons, but the Rooneys were smart to show patience.

With that said, I'm really curious how Darnold does without a dolt like Gase as his head coach.

Edited by Nut
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I would argue (and you're not wrong Mission, but there are other factors), that the tiered rookie contracts have made it much easier and more beneficial on the "sunk cost" front since Bradford.

For example, Bradford got a 6 year $76 million contract as a rookie. By comparison:

Quote

The then-St. Louis Rams drafted quarterback Sam Bradford in 2010 and he signed a six-year, $76 million contract. Since then, he has accomplished very little. In 2012, the Indianapolis Colts drafted Andrew Luck with the first overall pick. Luck signed a four-year, $22.5 million contract. That’s a difference of a little more than $7 million per year

What a lot of people don't really know is that between 2000-2007 after Tim Couch, the Browns only drafted 1 QB in the first round (Brady Quinn) largely for this reason. Since the new tiered rookie contracts, the Browns drafted Weeden, Manziel, and Mayfield, making 3 in a period of 8 drafts between 2012, 2014, and 2018.

Basically now, you can "cut bait" after 2-3 years with a guy and afford to roll the dice on his replacement, because you have a rookie contract that's reasonable for 4 years, then the option of whether or not to pick up that 5th year before you have to "pay him". 

You're not wrong on Mahomes being a reason for these guys being given up on that early, but you also have teams before Mahomes that were hesitant to pay guys big money (the WFT with Cousins comes to mind, as did Dak pre injury).

A Quarterback BUST used to set a franchise back 5-7 years, because you still owed a guy Top money AT HIS POSITION before he ever took a snap, which set off an endless cycle of lost jobs in the coaching/FO departments, a rebuild that had strings attached to try to salvage a guy or find a sleeper in the 2nd/3rd day, and then rolling the dice again after that 5-7 year period of time.

For example, the Cardinals and Jets in no way, shape, or form would be in a position to draft another QB just a year to three years after drafting "their guy" for that reason, not to mention Darnold and Rosen wouldn't have had any trade value because of their awful contracts.

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21 hours ago, mission27 said:

I joined FF in 2008, thinking back to those first few drafts guys like Ryan, Flacco, and Stafford were far from superstars from day 1 but there was never any talk I can remember of teams moving on and (at least in the case of Ryan and Stafford) they broke out in their mid/late 20s. 

Literally the only reason Ryan and Flacco weren't "superstars" was small(er) market teams, the fact everyone was on Payton and Brady's nuts and maybe a feeling to give them some slack. Both Ryan and Flacco had some pretty impressive rookie campaigns. Ryan taking a  decent team but one  that seemed to be condemned to years of mediocrity following the Ron Mexico and Bobby Petrino debacle to a playoff appearance (and with a bit of luck that might have actually been a deep playoff run) while Flaccid did the same, as in reaching the playoffs, on a stacked Ravens team so he also deserves some credit I guess.

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21 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

The problem seems to be that recently, other than the Patriots with Brady, the only teams who win the Super Bowl seem to have young QB's on their rookie contract.

This is wildly overstated. It's actually only happened 2 times with QBs on a rookie deal signed after the rookie wage scale was introduced in 2011.

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20 hours ago, bigbadbuff said:

People said Josh Allen sucked and the Bills should’ve moved on. 

I’ll leave it at that

True and he did but he got better, the flashes became more consistent and that's really what it comes down to is the consistency game in and game out for Quarterbacks. 

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