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Mahomes broke the QB position in the NFL


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18 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

To be fair the Ravens from 01-07 had one of the best defenses in the league and ran the ball a crap-ton like almost every year but missed the playoffs like every other year...as soon as Flacco arrived it was 5 straight playoff trips with at least 1 win in the post season every year capped by a SB in 2012. Even if he wasn’t lighting up the stat sheet there’s something to be said about the stability he brought to the org from game 1

Yeah but that also coincided with the Ravens bringing in Harbaugh.  I’d argue he was a much bigger driver of that success and stability, at least early on.  Flacco was an upgrade over the crap they’d thrown out there at the QB position but he was still pretty bad his rookie year.

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I think it’s more Tom Brady who is ruining the NFL than Mahomes.

And, the fact that Mahomes sat for a season before starting blows up TC’s case.  

Brady did too, but it’s just the fact that he hasn’t really declined since he got his first starting season in 2001 and is approaching mid 40s now.  
 

There’s at least a dozen teams in the league right now who would love to draft a QB who has that kind of consistency for 20 years.  
 

I think if Mahomes would have beaten Brady this past Super Bowl (even if he lost the game by a possession), we’d be having a different conversation.  

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20 minutes ago, RamblinMan99 said:

I think it’s more Tom Brady who is ruining the NFL than Mahomes.

And, the fact that Mahomes sat for a season before starting blows up TC’s case.  

Brady did too, but it’s just the fact that he hasn’t really declined since he got his first starting season in 2001 and is approaching mid 40s now.  
 

There’s at least a dozen teams in the league right now who would love to draft a QB who has that kind of consistency for 20 years.  
 

I think if Mahomes would have beaten Brady this past Super Bowl (even if he lost the game by a possession), we’d be having a different conversation.  

Brady really is the Jordan of the NFL. He prevented so many great teams and players from getting a rings. 

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how many QBs in the last decade have only become good after 3+ years?

off the top of my head, doesnt seem like it would be a long list

sure, we've seen guys that struggled as rookies step up (Goff was terribad, Lamar looked really incompetent in his playoff loss to the Chargers)... but i cant think of many who were bad or just mediocre for 3 years who then suddenly clicked. at least not recently.

if you're really a believer in this theory, would you have wanted your team to trade a 3rd rounder to WFT for Haskins before they cut him? would you want your team to take on trubisky as a potential QB of the future? what would you trade for Drew Lock?

Mahomes didnt really break it in that respect. he didn't even start until year 2. If you really want to go back, it was Matt Ryan who came in as a rookie and immediately played well, which started bucking the trend. then we had Cam.

Edited by Turnobili
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On 4/6/2021 at 6:18 PM, Scoundrel said:

American Culture is a throw away culture and a we want it now culture. Have a perfectly working phone? A new model comes out ditch the old one for a new one. Have a marriage that has a couple bumps in the road? Throw it out and get a divorce and find a new “love”. It has now trickled into sports as well. We expect results instantly and if they aren’t there when we want them we toss them out for the next thing. 

 Dont like a perfectly good user name? Choose another one! :)

 

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16 hours ago, Blackstar12 said:

Brady really is the Jordan of the NFL. He prevented so many great teams and players from getting a rings. 

Such as?

Donald is one. Ramsay another. Ultimately it's well within the other team's control. And often it was their defense that see them through. 

Edited by BigTrav
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18 minutes ago, BigTrav said:

Such as?

Donald is one. Ramsay another. Ultimately it's well within the other team's control. And often it was their defense that see them through. 

Rivers, Gates, Tomlinson,  Edgerrin James, Terrell Owens to name a few.

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On 4/6/2021 at 4:37 PM, mission27 said:

Tbh the NFL will be a very QB hungry league in 5 years if this continues and nobody has patience or values stability at the QB position. 

 

To me, 10 years ago the NFL was very QB hungry. Hence why teams were more patient. Right now it seems we are QB saturated. So it is less risky for teams to move on.

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On 4/10/2021 at 10:18 AM, BigTrav said:

Such as?

Donald is one. Ramsay another. Ultimately it's well within the other team's control. And often it was their defense that see them through. 

 

On 4/10/2021 at 10:39 AM, Blackstar12 said:

Rivers, Gates, Tomlinson,  Edgerrin James, Terrell Owens to name a few.

Not giving this credit to Brady, but to name a few more that would have rings if not for the Pats: 

Julio Jones, Matt Ryan, Julius Peppers, Steve Smith, Mushin Muhammad, Brian Dawkins, Brian Westbrook...

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On 4/7/2021 at 9:54 AM, MWil23 said:

I would argue (and you're not wrong Mission, but there are other factors), that the tiered rookie contracts have made it much easier and more beneficial on the "sunk cost" front since Bradford.

For example, Bradford got a 6 year $76 million contract as a rookie. By comparison:

What a lot of people don't really know is that between 2000-2007 after Tim Couch, the Browns only drafted 1 QB in the first round (Brady Quinn) largely for this reason. Since the new tiered rookie contracts, the Browns drafted Weeden, Manziel, and Mayfield, making 3 in a period of 8 drafts between 2012, 2014, and 2018.

Basically now, you can "cut bait" after 2-3 years with a guy and afford to roll the dice on his replacement, because you have a rookie contract that's reasonable for 4 years, then the option of whether or not to pick up that 5th year before you have to "pay him". 

You're not wrong on Mahomes being a reason for these guys being given up on that early, but you also have teams before Mahomes that were hesitant to pay guys big money (the WFT with Cousins comes to mind, as did Dak pre injury).

A Quarterback BUST used to set a franchise back 5-7 years, because you still owed a guy Top money AT HIS POSITION before he ever took a snap, which set off an endless cycle of lost jobs in the coaching/FO departments, a rebuild that had strings attached to try to salvage a guy or find a sleeper in the 2nd/3rd day, and then rolling the dice again after that 5-7 year period of time.

For example, the Cardinals and Jets in no way, shape, or form would be in a position to draft another QB just a year to three years after drafting "their guy" for that reason, not to mention Darnold and Rosen wouldn't have had any trade value because of their awful contracts.

 

Yep I was going to say this.

The Cardinals can draft a QB high in back to back years with no salary cap ramification. The same was not true before the tiered contracts.

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On 4/6/2021 at 5:55 PM, KingOfNewYork said:

 

3 years is enough time to show your worth, after that teams should begin creating contingency plans because the league will pass you by. 

Not just QBs, but guys in general.

 

It’s not financially worth keeping any player and hoping he’s just a late bloomer.

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On 4/9/2021 at 5:23 PM, Blackstar12 said:

Brady really is the Jordan of the NFL. He prevented so many great teams and players from getting a rings. 

Brady stopped the Steelers and Ravens from having a dynasty.

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14 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Not just QBs, but guys in general.

 

It’s not financially worth keeping any player and hoping he’s just a late bloomer.

True but with other guys at positions that aren’t on the field 100% of the snaps you’re able to find roles for them. There’s not a lot of teams that use QBs in specified roles. 

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