Mahomes broke the QB position in the NFL

[7DnBrnc53]

8 hours ago, Split the Sticks said:

Point.

And Terry Bradshaw would have been dumped before the first season was over. I mean he really sucked

Terry would have way better coaching than he had 50 years ago. He had none of the modern QB coaches or offensive systems.

[max]

21 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Teams are certainly a lot less patient these days.

The world is a lot less patient these days. Everything moves faster. Things that’s took weeks, months to do years ago, now we do in real time. 

[ET80]

On 4/19/2021 at 11:23 PM, KingOfNewYork said:

On 4/17/2021 at 3:25 PM, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

In the modern NFL, Peyton Manning would be tossed as a "bust" because he threw 28 interceptions as a rookie and won 3 games. 

And he'd deserve to be called that. 

[KingOfNewYork]

33 minutes ago, ET80 said:

28 interceptions in this era is unacceptable. 

[ET80]

1 minute ago, KingOfNewYork said:

28 interceptions in this era is unacceptable. 

Jameis Winston threw 30 two seasons ago, and he's now slated to take over for Drew Brees in New Orleans. 

[KingOfNewYork]

2 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Jameis Winston threw 30 two seasons ago, and he's now slated to take over for Drew Brees in New Orleans. 

30 interceptions is still unacceptable. I didn’t say Manning wouldn’t be given a chance to improve.

[ET80]

4 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

I didn’t say Manning wouldn’t be given a chance to improve.

Fair.

[Pugger]

On 4/7/2021 at 5:18 AM, sammymvpknight said:

One of the largest factors are that coaches aren’t given anytime. They use to win right away or they’re out the door. So there will be more QBs that show something quickly because if not the team loses, and the next coach might’ve looking toward a fresh start. Lots of turn over at position coach/coordinator positions as well. 

Another issue could be young QBs don't get the coaching at this level like they did in the past.  Mike McCarthy had a QB school in the offseason back in the day.  This extra teaching/coaching helped Aaron Rodgers become the QB he is today.  It didn't hurt for him to learn behind a future HOF QB either.  A lot of young guys are thrown to the wolves as rookies.  If they don't have success right away and/or are beaten to a pulp behind a lousy line that can damage a promising kid pretty darn quick.  Mahomes was fortunate to step into an ideal situation on day one.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Pugger

[childofpudding]

17 hours ago, max said:

The world is a lot less patient these days. Everything moves faster. Things that’s took weeks, months to do years ago, now we do in real time. 

I wouldn't even say it's limited to football either. You see teams in the NBA using their team option to move on from players selected in the 1st round before their rookie contracts are up as well.

[ET80]

34 minutes ago, Pugger said:

Another issue could be young QBs don't get the coaching at this level like they did in the past.  Mike McCarthy had a QB school in the offseason back in the day.  This extra teaching/coaching helped Aaron Rodgers become the QB he is today.  

Well, I'll counter by saying that these QBs nowadays have "private" QB coaches they work with year-round - Quincy Avery, Chris Weinke, Jordan Palmer, John Beck and Sean Salisbury are just a few of the names in this cottage industry. Ron Veal has been working with both Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields since 2012 - nine years before either were slated to become top 3 picks, back when both were 13 years old.

Avery is the QB coach for Deshaun Watson, and he travels with Watson in-season to provide insight in addition to the work put in by the Texans staff. In a rather difficult loss to Carolina, Avery and Watson went out to NRG field after Watson finished up his post game presser to work on things Watson didn't execute correctly.

https://sports.yahoo.com/deshaun-watson-had-a-rough-game-so-he-stayed-afterward-to-work-with-qb-coach-010108533.html

This does raise an interesting issue related to your point - which QB coach should a QB listen to? If Avery tells a a guy one thing and then Pep Hamilton says another thing - which QB coach wins out? The one who was coaching you since you were 14, or the one who is in essence your co-worker/boss?

In essence - what's really accomplished when you don't have synergy between the two?

[Tk3]

I'm going to counter the ENTIRE premise of this conversation

Mahomes contract will break the QB position (although it has been moving in that direction for years)

This next wave of QB contracts is going to prove that teams can't win super bowls with upwards of 20% of cap tied up in a single player

The difference between a $7M cap hit in 2021 and a $47M cap hit in 2023 is 2 superstars that can no longer be on your roster. If he suddenly cannot have an offensive line or if he has to lose a major weapon on offense - we will see if he is still the "future GOAT"

[MacReady]

Lol. 

Every 10 years a QB breaks the QB position.

Favre.
Manning.
Rodgers.
Mahomes.

Then there's Tom Brady who has always (with the exception of maybe 5 years) gotten his cap hit close to or under that 12% magical number.  He's got 7 rings while the four quarterbacks to break the position combined have 5 Super Bowl wins between them. 

@Tk3 is right.  It's not a QB that wins Super Bowls, it's a mix of cap health and hitting on draft picks.  If you're a team like the Patriots who signs bargain free agency deals to compensate for poor drafting, you've got just as good a shot.

It's not about QB/DEFENSE/CAP HEALTH/DRAFT CAPITAL alone in all reality. 

It's the team with the best balance of those four things. 

Going into this past year, the Chiefs blow the Buccaneers out of the water.  But the Buccaneers hit (and by hit I mean blew out of the ****ing water) on their first two draft picks.  With comparable defenses, it was the draft capital that pushed the Buccaneers past the Chiefs.  Not the QB. 

And if the Packers had used one of their first two picks on a receiver, ILB, DB, or any position that had an impact other than warming Aaron's seat, the Packers likely have that 6 points needed to swing that Championship game into a win.

I'm rambling a little bit here and losing my point.

My point is: No quarterback will ever break the position.  How much they're paid will break the position, and Brady has done broken it. 

[Tk3]

11 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Favre.
Manning.
Rodgers.
Mahomes.

Then there's Tom Brady who has always (with the exception of maybe 5 years) gotten his cap hit close to or under that 12% magical number.  He's got 7 rings while the four quarterbacks to break the position combined have 5 Super Bowl wins between them. 

Manning was 11.7% of cap when he won his. Rodgers  was an uncapped year, but his salary was $6.5M. Mahomes was 2.4% of cap. Russ 0.6%

Now, if we get to the point were 20% of the league is paying QBs $40+M / ~18% of cap. Then one of them will manage to win. But there will be enough failure among that class that contracts will have to normalize eventually

Teams that spend like that on QB are going to have to be getting discounts elsewhere - or really nailing their drafts and getting players on rookie contracts - or both

[Tk3]

It's also why a guy who has to sit out year 1 is a risky pick in comparison to the old days. You NEED to start winning on that rookie contract. It's hard to waste that year.

[Tk3]

17 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

My point is: No quarterback will ever break the position.  How much they're paid will break the position, and Brady has done broken it. 

Bingo

If some ultra marketable QB ever says "pay me $10 per year, 100% guaranteed, and I'll make up the rest on endorsements", then we need to look out, because THAT would break the NFL