2021 ROOKIE QB's---- Who hits, who's OK, who busts?

[FrantikRam]

19 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

I think that's taking it a little too far.  Just look at Matthew Stafford's career with Detroit.  The Lions have been run every bit as badly as the Jaguars or the Jets and he had a decent career there for a decade.  It's also reasonable to claim that even though he was a good prospect, taken #1 overall, he probably wasn't as good of a prospect as Trevor Lawrence is.

 

Odds were against Stafford in Detroit too. But he ended up having arguably a top 5 (in terms of talent) WR in NFL history. 

That helped him to look like a good QB but still the Lions have zero playoff wins. I think Stafford is a fringe top 10 QB right now, probably will be thought of as a top 5-7 after this year - so to me, it was the Lions org that was ultimately holding them back. Lawrence may be a better prospect (that's entirely subjective), but there's probably a 1% chance he plays with an offensive player as good as Calvin Johnson was.

And it's getting...funny to hear so much about how good a prospect someone is. I hate the Seahawks so much I told myself Luck was better than Wilson, but he wasn't. Not really. Not even from day one. We can say it had to do with their situations, but that's also the point I'm making here.

 

EDIT: also, if Lawrence has the same career as Stafford AND the Jaguars have the same lack of success, this will have been a huge disappointment even if Lawrence himself wasn't a bust. When a QB gets the "generational" moniker, they need to bring the team up.

Edited April 11, 2021 by FrantikRam

[Dr A W Niloc]

48 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

That may have been the case in prior regimes, but it certainly can't be said about Urban Meyer.  I think between he and Trevor, they should be able to change that culture very quickly.

I share your optimism about Urban Meyer.  I'm still a bit leery of Trent Baalke and the ownership has been a disappointment.

This may take longer than one season.

[Uncle Buck]

1 minute ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

I share your optimism about Urban Meyer.  I'm still a bit leery of Trent Baalke and the ownership has been a disappointment.

This may take longer than one season.

I agree, it's going to take a while.  If we just win 6-7 games in 2021 I'll consider it a successful season of growth.  Back when Mike Ditka took over as head coach of the Bears he told them "give me 3 years."  Sure enough, three years later they won the Super Bowl.  If we can at least be contending in the playoffs in 3 years, I'll be happy.

[Uncle Buck]

31 minutes ago, FrantikRam said:

 

Odds were against Stafford in Detroit too. But he ended up having arguably a top 5 (in terms of talent) WR in NFL history. 

That helped him to look like a good QB but still the Lions have zero playoff wins. I think Stafford is a fringe top 10 QB right now, probably will be thought of as a top 5-7 after this year - so to me, it was the Lions org that was ultimately holding them back. Lawrence may be a better prospect (that's entirely subjective), but there's probably a 1% chance he plays with an offensive player as good as Calvin Johnson was.

And it's getting...funny to hear so much about how good a prospect someone is. I hate the Seahawks so much I told myself Luck was better than Wilson, but he wasn't. Not really. Not even from day one. We can say it had to do with their situations, but that's also the point I'm making here.

 

EDIT: also, if Lawrence has the same career as Stafford AND the Jaguars have the same lack of success, this will have been a huge disappointment even if Lawrence himself wasn't a bust. When a QB gets the "generational" moniker, they need to bring the team up.

I can agree with that.  I will say that I'd be surprised if this happened.  You never know, I guess.

[Dr A W Niloc]

10 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

If we can at least be contending in the playoffs in 3 years, I'll be happy.

The positional schedules are friendly and the team is flush with juicy draft choices.  If they nail it in Cleveland...

[Uncle Buck]

2 minutes ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

The positional schedules are friendly and the team is flush with juicy draft choices.  If they nail it in Cleveland...

[jofos]

I think the only two QBs from this draft class that are still playing in five years are Lawrence and Davis Mills. 

I think Fields has ability but I think he likely ends up in a bad situation and never develops. Wilson has arm talent but the NFL is a lot different than North Alabama. Lance hasn't seen a defense in a year and I think it will take him longer to get up to speed than is acceptable for where he will be drafted so teams will give up on him. I asked a guy I know who is a pretty good talent evaluator about Jones, I had heard he was a stronger armed McCarron, He said in terms of Bama QBs he was more Jay Coker, so I don't expect much.

[TheEagle]

On 4/9/2021 at 10:33 PM, stl4life07 said:

Lance Im on the fence because he can go either way. recent history says that QBs who have started not many college games were Trubisky, Sanchez, and Murray. I might be missing someone else

Cam Newton?

[stl4life07]

5 hours ago, TheEagle said:

Cam Newton?

He was the exception. Not to mention he played in the hardest conference in college the SEC so he thrived against NFL talent pretty much every game. 

[NeptunePenguins]

Kerry Collins on the same level as Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers. Yes very valid stuff. Time to make a new thread about whether Kerry Collins would have won more rings in Peyton's situation than Peyton.

 

Mostly joking since I think the 1s are a bit broad. No issues with Stafford or Newton being that high, but Collins yeah.

 

As for the rookies, it is hard to say. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by NeptunePenguins

[DoleINGout]

On 4/8/2021 at 11:56 AM, LinebackerGod said:

But why?

I mean this sort of encapsulates and confirms my feelings on LawrenceZ Good for him the person I guess but for the guy I invest in on the field? Give me Fields.

[SkippyX]

On 4/12/2021 at 4:09 PM, stl4life07 said:

He was the exception. Not to mention he played in the hardest conference in college the SEC so he thrived against NFL talent pretty much every game. 

If you mean his team was loaded with NFL talent and there were a few dudes out of 11 on the other side who might make the NFL? sure

Cam's 2010 Schedule

• 6-7 Clemson
• 4-8 Arkansas State
• 9-4 Miss State
• 9-5 SC 
• 5-7 Louisiana Monroe
• 6-7 Kentucky
• 10-3 Arkansas 
• 11-2 LSU 
• 4-8 Ole Miss
• Chattanooga?
• 6-7 Georgia
• 10-3 Alabama
• 9-5 SC again
• 12-1 Oregon

 

He played 4 tough games in his one year.  The SEC blather is boring propaganda.

SC went 9-5

• 3 wins were Furman, Southern Mississippi, and Troy.
• 1 win was 2-10 Vandy
• 1 was 6-7 Clemson who was really 4-7 when not playing Presbyterian or North Texas.

Miss St went 9-4

• 3 wins were Memphis, Alcorn State, and UAB
• Miss St did beat Georgia, Florida, and Michigan, so they must be great...
  • Georgia was 3-5 in the SEC, Florida was 4-4, and Michigan was Rich Rod 7-6 Michigan.

 

Alabama and LSU usually get a very good roster of talented players.

Some other SEC teams get some blue chips from time to time and it goes in cycles.

Back in 2010 Auburn was on their level.

 

Cam was special because Cam was special. It had nothing to do with 1 year in the mighty SEC equals 2 years anywhere else.

[SkippyX]

In the last 44 years the SEC has a total of ZERO QBs that have won a Super Bowl without half of Archie Manning's DNA.

There is absolutely positively beyond any doubt no advanced QB learning going on there.

 

[jofos]

21 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

I mean this sort of encapsulates and confirms my feelings on LawrenceZ Good for him the person I guess but for the guy I invest in on the field? Give me Fields.

Yeah this is horrible! I hope he drops all the way to the 15th pick.

[DoleINGout]

I'm just not a Lawrence fan.