lavar703 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 31 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said: Are you guys happy with the Cam Dantzler signing? I always rooted for him, but maybe he just needs coached up more. He’s right up Rivera’s average to bad alley. He’s also cheap which Rivera loves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTMONK HOF Posted March 28, 2023 Author Share Posted March 28, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 4 hours ago, lavar703 said: I love the fans who don’t want them to pick up Chase Young’s option failing to realize if you do that Sweat and Young are free agents at the same time along with Kam Curl, Kendall Fuller, Curtis Samuel and Antonio Gibson. Must resign, Already overpaid, JAG, JAG. Chase and Montez will most likely be battling for one payday. Honestly if Chase didn't have the name value or draft position would anyone really be as adamant that we pick up the 5th year option? His stats are very underwhelming. His ability to stay on the field is also very underwhelming. He freelances too much in a system that relies on players "playing within the system." I think Chase has immense talent, but that doesn't always translate. What has he done to earn the 1 year $17.45M option? We can't act like Chase is the first 2nd overall pick to bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 hour ago, SteelKing728 said: Are you guys happy with the Cam Dantzler signing? I always rooted for him, but maybe he just needs coached up more. I am not sure why he fell out of favor in Minnesota, but I am excited to see how he can contribute in the Nickel or 2nd/3rd CB position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Slappy Mc said: Must resign, Already overpaid, JAG, JAG. Chase and Montez will most likely be battling for one payday. Honestly if Chase didn't have the name value or draft position would anyone really be as adamant that we pick up the 5th year option? His stats are very underwhelming. His ability to stay on the field is also very underwhelming. He freelances too much in a system that relies on players "playing within the system." I think Chase has immense talent, but that doesn't always translate. What has he done to earn the 1 year $17.45M option? We can't act like Chase is the first 2nd overall pick to bust. We have no clue what Chase Young is? He was a stud as a rookie and then struggled along with the rest of the DL his second year and then got hurt. He could be a bust or he could have 17 sacks next season. Not picking up his option is beyond stupid. And the only one I agree with you on is Gibson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 42 minutes ago, lavar703 said: We have no clue what Chase Young is? He was a stud as a rookie and then struggled along with the rest of the DL his second year and then got hurt. He could be a bust or he could have 17 sacks next season. Not picking up his option is beyond stupid. And the only one I agree with you on is Gibson. How can you say we don't know what Chase Young is? He isn't a rookie coming out. He has had 3 season in the NFL and he has only played in 27 games. Chase Young has never lived up to his draft position. Yes even when he won Defensive rookie of the year, with 7.5 sacks, 4 forced fumbles, 3 fumble recoveries with one returned for a TD, 44 tackles and only 12 QB pressures. For comparison the very next season Micah Parson won Defensive rookie of the year with 13 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, 84 tackles and 30 QB pressures. The biggest difference other than the production, Chase was 2nd overall and Micah was 12th overall the following year. I think not picking up his 5th year option is actually the better option. Here's why. IF he bombs next year, you let him go and don't owe him anything. If he does well then you give him the contract extension he deserves. If you take the 5th year option and he bombs, you are still on the hook for 17.45M the following year for what? The only positive to this is if he plays like the best player on the planet (never seen ANYTHING to indicate he is as good as Micah Parson, TJ Watt, Myles Garrett or Nick Bosa PRE-Injury) What on earth has given you any indication he could have 17 sacks next year? He had 5 tackles and 1 QB hit in three games last year... For someone that is notoriously negative about things, you overrate mediocre players. You think that Curtis Samuel has earned his keep? He got surpassed very quickly by our rookie last year on the depth chart. What has he done to earn 11.5M next year? Kendall Fuller wasn't even touted by his coaches as our best CB last year. He is making over 10M a year for next season. Does he not need to have a great season to get another contract extension? As for Kam Curl, not sure why you would argue he isn't a must sign. He is the voice of the secondary. Him and Forrest really worked well together last year and that would be a mistake to let him get away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 7 hours ago, Slappy Mc said: How can you say we don't know what Chase Young is? He isn't a rookie coming out. He has had 3 season in the NFL and he has only played in 27 games. Chase Young has never lived up to his draft position. Yes even when he won Defensive rookie of the year, with 7.5 sacks, 4 forced fumbles, 3 fumble recoveries with one returned for a TD, 44 tackles and only 12 QB pressures. For comparison the very next season Micah Parson won Defensive rookie of the year with 13 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, 84 tackles and 30 QB pressures. The biggest difference other than the production, Chase was 2nd overall and Micah was 12th overall the following year. I think not picking up his 5th year option is actually the better option. Here's why. IF he bombs next year, you let him go and don't owe him anything. If he does well then you give him the contract extension he deserves. If you take the 5th year option and he bombs, you are still on the hook for 17.45M the following year for what? The only positive to this is if he plays like the best player on the planet (never seen ANYTHING to indicate he is as good as Micah Parson, TJ Watt, Myles Garrett or Nick Bosa PRE-Injury) What on earth has given you any indication he could have 17 sacks next year? He had 5 tackles and 1 QB hit in three games last year... For someone that is notoriously negative about things, you overrate mediocre players. You think that Curtis Samuel has earned his keep? He got surpassed very quickly by our rookie last year on the depth chart. What has he done to earn 11.5M next year? Kendall Fuller wasn't even touted by his coaches as our best CB last year. He is making over 10M a year for next season. Does he not need to have a great season to get another contract extension? As for Kam Curl, not sure why you would argue he isn't a must sign. He is the voice of the secondary. Him and Forrest really worked well together last year and that would be a mistake to let him get away. -Curtis Samuel accounted for 843 yards and 5 TDs in an odd role Scott Turner created for him. He wasn't being asked to do the same things Jahan Dotson was as their responsibilities at the position are completely different. He's tasked with being a RB as well as being a receiver. So the idea that Dotson surpassed him makes no sense because they aren't used the same way and in the role Samuel plays he's pretty good. -Kendall Fuller- He's without a doubt your best corner currently on the roster especially with BSJs total inability to stay healthy. This doesn't mean I don't think you can find someone potentially better however $10M is not a lot for a teams number 1 corner. -Chase Young- He's 23-years old and not even remotely close to his prime. Maybe he's a bust and you're right but if he's not and they don't pick up his option you're almost certainly losing a player you wouldn't have had to simply because you chose not to pick up his option. Maybe they could structure his deal next year where his hit would be lower in the first year but you're probably talking a difference of $10M between the option and what you'd have to pay him yearly. Fiscally it makes no sense at all to not pick up his option. This is no different than my argument to keep Payne around when most wanted to move on or trade him for whatever. Plus I'm a big proponent of keeping our own drafted talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 11 hours ago, SteelKing728 said: Are you guys happy with the Cam Dantzler signing? I always rooted for him, but maybe he just needs coached up more. I like it a lot. I was high on him coming out of college. I also feel like he really wasn't that awful for you all? Surround him with some players and maybe he'll grow. It's a great low risk, low pay claim to see if it works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: I like it a lot. I was high on him coming out of college. I also feel like he really wasn't that awful for you all? Surround him with some players and maybe he'll grow. It's a great low risk, low pay claim to see if it works out. He was painfully average. Coaching is what he really needs...and some confidence in himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said: He was painfully average. Coaching is what he really needs...and some confidence in himself. That might be okay for what we ask him to do. Just play better than Wildgoose did at times. Ideally our D is playing better than yours did last season and everyone is better off for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 hour ago, lavar703 said: -Curtis Samuel accounted for 843 yards and 5 TDs in an odd role Scott Turner created for him. He wasn't being asked to do the same things Jahan Dotson was as their responsibilities at the position are completely different. He's tasked with being a RB as well as being a receiver. So the idea that Dotson surpassed him makes no sense because they aren't used the same way and in the role Samuel plays he's pretty good. Samuel is very good/great in the short to intermediate range and good in motion. The question is, do you pay your #3 WR 11.5M? 1 hour ago, lavar703 said: -Kendall Fuller- He's without a doubt your best corner currently on the roster especially with BSJs total inability to stay healthy. This doesn't mean I don't think you can find someone potentially better however $10M is not a lot for a teams number 1 corner. While I would agree that Kendall is our best CB, there were several times the staff called BSJ their best CB. I think the fact that fans and draft experts are mocking us a CB in the first tells us how solid Kendall really is. He probably should have stayed in the slot. 1 hour ago, lavar703 said: Chase Young- He's 23-years old and not even remotely close to his prime. Maybe he's a bust and you're right but if he's not and they don't pick up his option you're almost certainly losing a player you wouldn't have had to simply because you chose not to pick up his option. Maybe they could structure his deal next year where his hit would be lower in the first year but you're probably talking a difference of $10M between the option and what you'd have to pay him yearly. Fiscally it makes no sense at all to not pick up his option. This is no different than my argument to keep Payne around when most wanted to move on or trade him for whatever. Plus I'm a big proponent of keeping our own drafted talent. I have come to the conclusion that people can't get over the name value and draft position of Chase Young. Might as well just sign that contract extention now since he is "not even remotely close to his prime". The staff is being very smart, whether people want to believe it or not, by delving into whether it's a good option to pick up his 5th round option. He simply has not delivered. Plenty of very talented people have fizzled out of the NFL for never putting it together. Payne is completely different as well. I was a huge advocate of trading him for draft capital or a player of equal value at a position of need. One of the reasons is so we could pay either of our pass rushers. Daron earned his payday and Chase hasn't. If Chase performs well this year, maybe he gets his, but it is foolish to pay him for what we have gotten so far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: Samuel is very good/great in the short to intermediate range and good in motion. The question is, do you pay your #3 WR 11.5M? No. 4 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: While I would agree that Kendall is our best CB, there were several times the staff called BSJ their best CB. I think the fact that fans and draft experts are mocking us a CB in the first tells us how solid Kendall really is. He probably should have stayed in the slot. This is probably Kendall's last year unless we restructure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Slappy Mc said: Samuel is very good/great in the short to intermediate range and good in motion. The question is, do you pay your #3 WR 11.5M? While I would agree that Kendall is our best CB, there were several times the staff called BSJ their best CB. I think the fact that fans and draft experts are mocking us a CB in the first tells us how solid Kendall really is. He probably should have stayed in the slot. I have come to the conclusion that people can't get over the name value and draft position of Chase Young. Might as well just sign that contract extention now since he is "not even remotely close to his prime". The staff is being very smart, whether people want to believe it or not, by delving into whether it's a good option to pick up his 5th round option. He simply has not delivered. Plenty of very talented people have fizzled out of the NFL for never putting it together. Payne is completely different as well. I was a huge advocate of trading him for draft capital or a player of equal value at a position of need. One of the reasons is so we could pay either of our pass rushers. Daron earned his payday and Chase hasn't. If Chase performs well this year, maybe he gets his, but it is foolish to pay him for what we have gotten so far. Sorry, I don't agree that its a good idea not to pick up his option. Going into a season with both of your young pass rushers facing free agency is just crazy. What do you do if both have great seasons? You're almost forced to let one walk because you still have to take care of Curl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, lavar703 said: Sorry, I don't agree that its a good idea not to pick up his option. Going into a season with both of your young pass rushers facing free agency is just crazy. What do you do if both have great seasons? You're almost forced to let one walk because you still have to take care of Curl. This is why I advocated for trading Payne. Now it matters for under performing defensive ends? You pay the people who perform. If you don't perform you can see yourself out the door. This is the business aspect of football. Kam Curl needs to be paid because he has and I expect him to continue to perform. I would pay Sweat over Young right now, but I would rather reset at that position. I don't think either are I'm the top half of the league at their respective positions and will undoubtedly be asking for too much money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: This is why I advocated for trading Payne. Now it matters for under performing defensive ends? You pay the people who perform. If you don't perform you can see yourself out the door. This is the business aspect of football. Kam Curl needs to be paid because he has and I expect him to continue to perform. I would pay Sweat over Young right now, but I would rather reset at that position. I don't think either are I'm the top half of the league at their respective positions and will undoubtedly be asking for too much money. Its just something you and I are never going to agree on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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