NYRaider Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 1 minute ago, beekay414 said: lol the most valuable #1 overall pick of all-time, sans 2003. He's the 30th ranked prospect in 2023 so if the one-n-done rule remains intact he won't be draft eligible until 2024. If they change it he could be in the 2023 draft, which just so happens to be when LeBron is set to hit free agency. IIRC they're voting on it next year. But either way I'm just not really sure he's even good enough to be a top pick, especially straight out of high school. But screw it he could be straight boo boo and I'd still take him if it meant we also get to sign LeBron, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: He's definitely one of the greatest players to ever play the game. It's hard to compare players across eras because the league is way different then it was in the 1990s or 2000s. Sure Jordan won 6/6 finals, are we going to ignore the fact that he also failed to make the finals in the 9 years of his career? Sure Kobe won 5 rings but are we going to ignore the fact that he wasn't even the best player on his own team for the first 3, got 2 on his own, but most of his teams were pretty bad post Shaq outside of those title teams. LeBron led his team to the Finals as a young player with one of the worst supporting casts for a finals team ever early in his career and ran into a dynasty. He then went to 8 straight finals with Cleveland/Miami, winning 2 with Miami and 1 with Cleveland, but also ran into another dynasty with the Warriors. Then came to the Lakers, a team that had been bad/irrelevant since Kobe retired, and won a championship there as well. LeBron holds the record for most seasons averaging 25+ ppg with 17 and he has done it in 17 straight seasons. The guys with the second most 25+ ppg seasons are Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, and Karl Malone with 12 each. But how can you say LeBron isn't a great scorer when he has 5 more 25+ ppg seasons than any player in history and they've all come consecutively. He's probably the most consistent player in NBA history. Lebron is an all time great. Just his style also been just bulldoze or use a first step to get to the hoop. He is a freak of nature, maybe the greatest athlete in NBA history. he just don't have the moves MJ or Kobe had as players. I give Lebron props for his consistent era of dominance. Hell even Durant has more moves, and Kyrie has the better handles. reasons to diminish Lebron legacy - MOB Ties - dude always playing politics to be on top teams. Lebron created this super team era (which sucks) by going to Miami. That was his short cut to win. even that great team didn't accomplish what everyone thought. then he teamed up on another super team with Love and Kyrie. Karma came back to him with Durant signed with Golden State. Then instead of trying to win and make the kids better, he traded them all for AD. Lebron also has his right hand man Rich Paul recruiting players, making AD force his way to LA etc. the league just allows it, meanwhile the league blocked Chris Paul to the lakers for league reasons - Lebron acts like the ball is a hot potato when you in big game in the playoffs. guy just would rather have a real closer take of business when it counts. sure he has been lucky throwing it up with some buzzer beaters. he isn't someone I want the ball in his hands with a finals game on the line. Give me jumpman - the east was a joke all those Years. crazy how bad the east were back in the day - Lebron rules- Lebron got the same calls the MJ got in his career. Kobe could have only dreamed of the calls Lebron always received. Lebron always got the king treatment with the refs, which is why he cries so much when he doesn't get his way -Meh technical scorer skills- sure he gets his stats. but it's not a work of art scoring like MJ. Lebron is flashy and a freak but meh when it comes to getting a bucket type of moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 Just now, Bullet Club said: It's weird because GOAT could apply to either definition. Agreed. I just think LeBron's early losses in the finals and him switching teams so many times pretty much destroyed his chances of being considered the goat in the eyes of the masses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 Yeah, Jordan is the greatest talent to play the game but LeBron is the most impactful. That much is obvious. From day one, he elevated his team. Immediately took a team that went 17-65 and won 35 games with a very similar roster as a 19 year old. Don't even have to mention 2007 and lifting that piss poor roster to a Finals berth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 29, 2021 Author Share Posted July 29, 2021 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: Agreed. I just think LeBron's early losses in the finals and him switching teams so many times pretty much destroyed his chances of being considered the goat in the eyes of the masses. If narrative play a big role in their GOAT rankings, maybe. I prefer to keep mine to on the court/in the locker room but I understand I don't grade on a casuals scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 12 minutes ago, NYRaider said: The fact that LeBron dipped to Miami and instantly made them a contender/won titles, then dipped back to Cleveland instantly made them a contender/won a title, then dipped to Los Angeles and instantly made them a contender/won a title, says all you have to know about how great LeBron is. all those teams had studs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 10 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: I think Michael Jordan is the best player to ever play basketball but I don't think anyone has ever brought more total career value than LeBron James. His combo of peak/prime/longevity is unreal. one of the all timers, I have him at 4th all time. He needs more titles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said: Lebron got the same calls the MJ got in his career. Kobe could have only dreamed of the calls Lebron always received. Lebron always got the king treatment with the refs, which is why he cries so much when he doesn't get his way What? Kobe and LeBron had similar FT rates for their careers and LeBron is, by far, the more physical player and LeBron's FT rate is significantly lower since he became more perimeter orientated in LA. His career rate is .404, his rate in LA is .327. Kobe's career rate was .382. Nothing about this comment lives in any type of reality. I do love it when NFL Gen makes it's way to the sub-forums. Adds a whole new appreciation for the regulars around these parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 29, 2021 Author Share Posted July 29, 2021 Since we're in here I might as well update my top 10: 1. Giannis Antetokounmpo 2. LeBron James 3. Nikola Jokic 4. Steph Curry 5. Luka Doncic 6. Kevin Durant 7. James Harden 8. Kawhi Leonard 9. Joel Embiid 10. Damian Lillard 1-4 are essentially interchangeable, and so are 6-8. For the record, my definition of best player heavily factors in durability which is why KD isn't top 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 1 minute ago, beekay414 said: What? Kobe and LeBron had similar FT rates for their careers and LeBron is, by far, the more physical player and LeBron's FT rate is significantly lower since he became more perimeter orientated in LA. His career rate is .404, his rate in LA is .327. Kobe's career rate was .382. Nothing about this comment lives in any type of reality. I do love it when NFL Gen makes it's way to the sub-forums. Adds a whole new appreciation for the regulars around these parts. Kobe was the greatest basketball I ever seen. from a skill standpoint, to the warrior on the court, to the moves. Guess that makes me an outsider for not saying Lebron is the goat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 29, 2021 Author Share Posted July 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said: one of the all timers, I have him at 4th all time. He needs more titles Outside of Mike, who do you have above him and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 Just now, Bullet Club said: Outside of Mike, who do you have above him and why? my top 5 1- Kobe 2- MJ 3- Kareem - overlooked because he is so old school. 4- Lebron - needs to be more of a winner than a loser in the finals. sorry that's how I feel 5- Magic- would be higher but career cut short Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said: Kobe was the greatest basketball I ever seen. from a skill standpoint, to the warrior on the court, to the moves. Guess that makes me an outsider for not saying Lebron is the goat What? What does that have to do with their free throw rates and your comment about the "lack of calls Kobe got compared to LeBron?" Did I venture over to Twitter and didn't notice? And the greatest basketball player of all-time, from a skill standpoint, is Larry Bird. Edited July 29, 2021 by beekay414 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 It's peak vs. longevity. LeBron never reached 1st 3-peat MJ in regards to two-way impact. He was damn close, but I maintain MJ hit a little higher for slightly longer. But overall career impact? It's LeBron. -Still has a chance to create the 40,000/10,000/10,000 club...which is absolutely insane. Points will be tough unless he turns around his injury luck from the last couple years, but he still has a very good chance at the record even if he falls short of 40,000 -Has just about every playoff and Finals record imaginable -He'll end up #1 for points (already #1 by a mile in the playoffs) -He'll end up top 5 in assists (#2 playoffs) -He'll end top 10 in steals (#1 playoffs) -He won't be TOO high for all time rebounds, probably end up around #30. However, hell end up top 4 in playoff rebounds 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 29, 2021 Author Share Posted July 29, 2021 1 minute ago, Humble_Beast said: my top 5 1- Kobe 2- MJ 3- Kareem - overlooked because he is so old school. 4- Lebron - needs to be more of a winner than a loser in the finals. sorry that's how I feel 5- Magic- would be higher but career cut short If you took Kobe out it'd look pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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