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1 minute ago, Kip Smithers said:

We gonna ignore that Durant hasn’t really been the primary ball handler for his team really like ever? He’s had Steph, Draymond, Russ, Harden has guys who initiate the offense instead. 

if people think Giannis’ better than KD then better at least have been the case a month ago. 

Are we going to ignore that the great playmaking KD has never been able to win a title as the primary ball handler? How many MVP teammates has this dude had? 

It was the case when Giannis sent him home. 

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9 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

We gonna ignore that Durant hasn’t really been the primary ball handler for his team really like ever? He’s had Steph, Draymond, Russ, Harden has guys who initiate the offense instead. 
 

if people think Giannis’ better than KD then better at least have been the case a month ago. 

I mean...don't you think there is a reason he's never been asked to be a primary ball handler? I certainly do. Steph's the GOAT off-ball player, Draymond is more of a high post initiator/facilitator. Russ and Harden are ball hogs so you can't really get around that but it's simply never been a great idea to run the offense through Durant.

I didn't say Giannis is better. You said you don't see an argument and I gave you one because there is one. You can check when I made the thread for my timestamped stance.

Edited by Bullet Club
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6 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

I didn't say Giannis is better. You said you don't see an argument and I gave you one because there is one. You can check when I made the thread for my timestamped stance.

When you're looking at which is better overall it has to be Giannis. The only thing KD has on Giannis is his mid-range game. 

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3 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

I mean...don't you think there is a reason he's never been asked to be a primary ball handler? I certainly do. Steph's the GOAT off-ball player, Draymond is more of a high post initiator/facilitator. Russ and Harden are ball hogs so you can't really get around that but it's simply never been a great idea to run the offense through Durant.

I didn't say Giannis is better. You said you don't see an argument and I gave you one because there is one. You can check when I made the thread for my timestamped stance.

Just happenstance. He’s had other players around him who could do that. Just like this year in particular Giannis stop being the primary ball handler because It suited the team better that for it to be Jrue. 
 

My point in not seeing the argument is that all those things you say Giannis does better than KD (whether they’re true or not) was the case a month ago, yet after that series I don’t think a single person said or even thought that the best player in that series wasn’t KD. So why now?

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5 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Just happenstance. He’s had other players around him who could do that. Just like this year in particular Giannis stop being the primary ball handler because It suited the team better that for it to be Jrue. 
 

My point in not seeing the argument is that all those things you say Giannis does better than KD (whether they’re true or not) was the case a month ago, yet after that series I don’t think a single person said or even thought that the best player in that series wasn’t KD. So why now?

For as much **** as I've talked about Kawhi for being outplayed by Luka in round 1, it is possible to be the best player and get outplayed in a series. It's not like Giannis wasn't awesome too. When I created this thread, and updated it in April I had Giannis several spots ahead of Durant. My definition of best player is: put these guys on an average team...who wins the most games/advances the furthest. 

Most of the lists here had Giannis above KD. So who is the prisoner of the moment? People saying Giannis was better midseason and after the season? Or the people who changed their minds to Durant being the best after one series?

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22 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

For as much **** as I've talked about Kawhi for being outplayed by Luka in round 1, it is possible to be the best player and get outplayed in a series. It's not like Giannis wasn't awesome too. When I created this thread, and updated it in April I had Giannis several spots ahead of Durant. My definition of best player is: put these guys on an average team...who wins the most games/advances the furthest. 

Most of the lists here had Giannis above KD. So who is the prisoner of the moment? People saying Giannis was better midseason and after the season? Or the people who changed their minds to Durant being the best after one series?

It’s possible but KD was regarded as the best player in the playoffs up until that point. Also KD missed and entire season and hadn’t played since 2019 (and missed time this season as well) so naturally people are gonna forget and recency bias would’ve kicked in. Before KD went down vs Raptors he was regarded as the best, even after Giannis winning MVP, so he didn’t just pop out of nowhere. He was reclaiming it. 
 

as for your question, put them on a average team? I would take KD without a doubt. His skill set fits that better imo. Doesn’t have a weakness in his game. 
 

EDIT: I’m seeing some these lists now, good gosh. Some people were putting KD outside the top 5 lmao.

Edited by Kip Smithers
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10 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

It’s possible but KD was regarded as the best player in the playoffs up until that point. Also KD missed and entire season and hadn’t played since 2019 (and missed time this season as well) so naturally people are gonna forget and recency bias would’ve kicked in. Before KD went down vs Raptors he was regarded as the best, even after Giannis winning MVP, so he didn’t just pop out of nowhere. He was reclaiming it. 
 

as for your question, put them on a average team? I would take KD without a doubt. His skill set fits that better imo. Doesn’t have a weakness in his game. 

Was he? I don't buy that. He wasn't even the best player on his own team in round 1. So it was literally one series where that talk was super prevalent. I can say with absolute certainty that I've never considered Kevin Durant the best player in the NBA.

I'd take Giannis, mainly because he's way more durable, on top of being a better defender, and that matters. It seems like your definition is: one game, completely healthy, who is best? In which case, Giannis, LeBron and Durant are the best in some order. Under my season definition, durability is a major factor.

Edited by Bullet Club
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5 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Was he? I don't buy that. He wasn't even the best player on his own team in round 1. So it was literally one series where that talk was super prevalent. I can say with absolute certainty that I've never considered Kevin Durant the best player in the NBA.

I'd take Giannis, mainly because he's way more durable, on top of being a better defender, and that matters.

Well yeah. I mean him and Harden were elite in first round then harden gets hurt for second round. Durant has been in convo for best in league for a while now lol. Like I said we all watched that series and most, if not all, walked away (including Giannis) saying the best player is KD. 

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4 hours ago, beekay414 said:

It's not worth your time fellas. Let the man live in his dream world. He'll have to change his stance next year when Giannis eliminates a fully healthy Nets team and goes back to back!

wooo GIF

Ill definitely change my stance if Giannis does exactly that. Im not trying to diminish what he has done but Im not going to be a prisoner of the moment. We are all guilty of that but some people do learn. I remember when Edelman won Superbowl MVP in the 2018 season. The next day people was actually saying whether or not Edelman is a HOF'er. So its fair for me to not jump all in on the "Giannis is the best player on the planet" bandwagon because he finally figured it out in the Finals which is 6 games. I know he had an overall great postseason. He never had an issue with stats and making an impact in games. The past two postseasons he just didnt finish the job. He even had a 2-0 lead against the Raptors in the ECF but didnt finish the job. The difference is this year he finished the job. To me it showed that he might have figured it out. Now go out next season and I want to see if Giannis can take his dominant Finals series and do it again. The pressure was off him this season because of the failures from the past. The pressure was on the Nets, the 76ers since they had Doc as the coach, the Lakers trying to repeat, the Clippers trying to bounce back from their collapse last season. The Bucks finished 3rd in the East and while some still liked them, if they wouldve lost to the Heat in Round 1 or the Nets in Round 2 nobody would say the world has ended for Giannis. They would say they expected it based on his past failures. So now the pressure will be back on Giannis and the Bucks next season to deliver and if they dont then how will this season be remembered? For Giannis finally getting over the hump or that the Bucks took advantage of the breaks they was giving with not one but two of the Big 3 of the Nets being hurt. Also lowkey but the Suns big man depth got depleted due to injuries as the series went along and it was basically Ayton and nobody else to try to stop Giannis and Lopez and every other big that the Bucks threw at them. Im just saying. 

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4 hours ago, beekay414 said:

It's not worth your time fellas. Let the man live in his dream world. He'll have to change his stance next year when Giannis eliminates a fully healthy Nets team and goes back to back!

wooo GIF

And as for me living in a dream world. Its not that its called debating. If we cant debate on a sports forum and Im sure people are having this discussion in the barbershop talk then where can we have this debate? Unless you and others think its a no brainer like not even close. The only two players I can think of right now at least sports I follow that are no brainers best at their position is Brady at QB and Donald at Defensive Tackle in the NFL. No debate. But Giannis as the best player on the planet even if I was to believe he was its still close so its debatable. Thats why Im debating that KD is and Giannis isnt. And I said I have others above Giannis but I can see definitely see Giannis being above LeBron, Luka, Kawhi the only one imo that I wont put him over at this moment is KD. So its not hard to comprehend but its definitely debatable. Giannis has a chance to prove me wrong like you said next year if he beats a fully healthy Nets team and get back to the Finals and especially if he beats a healthy Lakers team or a Warriors team who will probably add another star to pair with Steph and Klay to form their version of a Big 3. So the beauty about sports is another year to validate and Giannis can do that next year. 

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1. Giannis

2. Steph

3. Durant

4. LeBron (hes the hardest to place, he could be #1, he could be lower. Its hard to tell if he was just hurt badly or if hes past the prime. If he was his 2020 self hes #1 easy)

5. Jokic

6. Leonard

7. Doncic

--------------------------I think everyone above this line is in the conversation for best player and see fair arguments for all. I had to put Giannis #1 after what we just witnessed. His last 3 years body of work clearly stands up favorably against everyone else. 

8. Harden

9. Embiid

10. Lilliard

11. Davis

------------------------I think this is the next 4 in some order. All have flaws preventing them from moving up (Embiid and Davis are too hurt and haven't taken teams far on their own, Harden chokes all the time, Lilliard is a bad defender)

Honorable mentions: Butler, Tatum, Mitchell, Paul, Westbrook, George

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Giannis is literally the best all around offensive and defensive player in the NBA. KD is the best offensive player. This isn't a one side of the court debate. KD has a bigger bag yet Giannis is still more dominant on a night-to-night basis while also being a 1st Team All-NBA defender year in and year out. Giannis also didn't have to leave to alleviate pressure off him to win a title like KD. 

Listen, I don't really care because nothing can be said to bother me right now but Giannis is the best player on the planet. Don't confuse offensive bag for being the best. There's a difference. That's why I'm not willing to debate it because you're confusing individual offensive talent for being the best player in the world. @stl4life07

You can have your opinion, I'll have mine. Right now, I'm on cloud 9 and couldn't care less about Kevin Durant. 

Edited by beekay414
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45 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Giannis is literally the best all around offensive and defensive player in the NBA. KD is the best offensive player. This isn't a one side of the court debate. KD has a bigger bag yet Giannis is still more dominant on a night-to-night basis while also being a 1st Team All-NBA defender year in and year out. Giannis also didn't have to leave to alleviate pressure off him to win a title like KD. 

Listen, I don't really care because nothing can be said to bother me right now but Giannis is the best player on the planet. Don't confuse offensive bag for being the best. There's a difference. That's why I'm not willing to debate it because you're confusing individual offensive talent for being the best player in the world. @stl4life07

You can have your opinion, I'll have mine. Right now, I'm on cloud 9 and couldn't care less about Kevin Durant. 

And you should be on cloud 9. Im definitely not trying to kill your vibe. The city of Milwaukee deserves this. Im happy for Giannis because he didnt leave to go join another superstar and I do have an appreciation of that. Growing up as an NBA fan first watching the Bulls. Knowing Jordan struggles before finally broke through. That meant something. I loved hearing what Giannis talked about after the game and again Im not rooting against the guy if that is what it seems Im coming across as. Its just all a debate thats it. But yeah you should definitely be on cloud 9. Regardless of who is the best player on the planet or not Giannis is going to go down at the very least a one of the most dominant players in NBA history. Its very clear to see the guy is a walking 30ppg 12reb walking machine. He does that despite not being a great 3pt shooter and not a great FT shooter. If he just gets a little better in those categories which he still is capable of doing its scary to think he could be better moving forward. So yeah I agree at the end of the day it doesnt really matter but for the sake of sports debating its a topic of conversation. But again Im glad Giannis finally broke through and got his championship. I can see him doing it again at some point so get ready for another victory parade in Milwaukee. 

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1 minute ago, stl4life07 said:

And you should be on cloud 9. Im definitely not trying to kill your vibe. The city of Milwaukee deserves this. Im happy for Giannis because he didnt leave to go join another superstar and I do have an appreciation of that. Growing up as an NBA fan first watching the Bulls. Knowing Jordan struggles before finally broke through. That meant something. I loved hearing what Giannis talked about after the game and again Im not rooting against the guy if that is what it seems Im coming across as. Its just all a debate thats it. But yeah you should definitely be on cloud 9. Regardless of who is the best player on the planet or not Giannis is going to go down at the very least a one of the most dominant players in NBA history. Its very clear to see the guy is a walking 30ppg 12reb walking machine. He does that despite not being a great 3pt shooter and not a great FT shooter. If he just gets a little better in those categories which he still is capable of doing its scary to think he could be better moving forward. So yeah I agree at the end of the day it doesnt really matter but for the sake of sports debating its a topic of conversation. But again Im glad Giannis finally broke through and got his championship. I can see him doing it again at some point so get ready for another victory parade in Milwaukee. 

Thank you for not taking the perceived tone of that post to heart (I read it a few times and was like "I really hope he doesn't take this the wrong way"). We'll each just enjoy our top 2 players on the planet and live happy lives. Good luck next year, from the Champs. ;)

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