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3 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

Well yeah. I mean him and Harden were elite in first round then harden gets hurt for second round. Durant has been in convo for best in league for a while now lol. Like I said we all watched that series and most, if not all, walked away (including Giannis) saying the best player is KD. 

But then Giannis kept playing and kept dominating. You stake your claim as the best in the Finals, not the 2nd round.

Opinions are allowed to change when the thing holding someone back is then proven wrong or outdated. That's what Giannis did. People held him back on their lists because of his playoff letdowns. That is now out the window, so why is it a problem to change our minds?

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12 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Thank you for not taking the perceived tone of that post to heart (I read it a few times and was like "I really hope he doesn't take this the wrong way"). We'll each just enjoy our top 2 players on the planet and live happy lives. Good luck next year, from the Champs. ;)

Oh no definitely didnt take it the wrong way. I definitely appreciate debating. We are debating between great players. Its not like one is great and the other is a scrub. But I look forward to next year hopefully my Nets are fully healthy and your Bucks are fully healthy and we meet again. Btw I was on the record that during the Bucks v Nets series this year to say whomever won that series will win the title. Now that changed personally for me because I couldnt ignore how well the Suns played especially after they made quick work of the Nuggets and even though the Clipper fought hard the Suns did take the first two games without CP3 which was impressive. So again Im not going to say Im shocked the Bucks won. They showed toughness and resilience being down 0-2 to the Nets, 0-1 to the Hawks, and 0-2 to the Suns and still winning. I love teams who dont get too high or too low. Thats exactly what the Bucks showed and again well deserved championship. 

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6 minutes ago, stl4life07 said:

Oh no definitely didnt take it the wrong way. I definitely appreciate debating. We are debating between great players. Its not like one is great and the other is a scrub. But I look forward to next year hopefully my Nets are fully healthy and your Bucks are fully healthy and we meet again. Btw I was on the record that during the Bucks v Nets series this year to say whomever won that series will win the title. Now that changed personally for me because I couldnt ignore how well the Suns played especially after they made quick work of the Nuggets and even though the Clipper fought hard the Suns did take the first two games without CP3 which was impressive. So again Im not going to say Im shocked the Bucks won. They showed toughness and resilience being down 0-2 to the Nets, 0-1 to the Hawks, and 0-2 to the Suns and still winning. I love teams who dont get too high or too low. Thats exactly what the Bucks showed and again well deserved championship. 

I didn't put too much stock in the Suns run. Their road was far more favorable than ours was. They played the Lakers, got down 2-1 and AD got hurt. They played a Jamal Murray-less Nuggets team and then a Kawhi Leonard-less Clippers squad. Personally felt we were the better, more resolved team. You don't just go from 19 wins to NBA Champs. You gotta take your bumps. I learned that in 2019 and apparently so did this Bucks team.

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10 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

I didn't put too much stock in the Suns run. Their road was far more favorable than ours was. They played the Lakers, got down 2-1 and AD got hurt. They played a Jamal Murray-less Nuggets team and then a Kawhi Leonard-less Clippers squad. Personally felt we were the better, more resolved team. You don't just go from 19 wins to NBA Champs. You gotta take your bumps. I learned that in 2019 and apparently so did this Bucks team.

In hindsight at least for me you have a point about going from 19 wins to NBA champs. That dont happen. Plus just on a personal note I rooting badly for CP3 to win. Like his time is running out where as Giannis still have alot of years left. CP3 played for my home state Hornets when he came into the league. Although I dont root for the Hornets now Pelicans I still followed CP3 closely. Also he played in the ACC so I followed him due to my team being Duke. Then CP3 went to the Clippers and just kept coming short so I wanted badly for him to get that monkey off his back. Obviously it didnt happen and I dont think it will now before he retires. But Giannis he does have that LeBron/Jordan type feel of being around the same age where they finally broke through and took off. So either way regardless of Giannis or CP3 one of them was going to finally break through. Im also glad Brook Lopez got a ring. I remember when the Nets drafted him. I so badly wanted him to and usually I want the Nets to draft someone and they usually dont but they did with Brook Lopez and I was happy. He had success with the Nets but never like any playoff success. So Im glad he got a ring as well. 

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23 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

But then Giannis kept playing and kept dominating. You stake your claim as the best in the Finals, not the 2nd round.

Opinions are allowed to change when the thing holding someone back is then proven wrong or outdated. That's what Giannis did. People held him back on their lists because of his playoff letdowns. That is now out the window, so why is it a problem to change our minds?

That ain’t the point. If Suns had won, is Devin Booker/CP3 now the best player in the league? Of course not and there are reasons for that. 

yes he kept on dominating and as he should really given he was very easily the best player of the teams remaining at the time. I just find it silly that a month ago, even with Bucks beating the Nets almost everyone was saying KD was the better of the two. He was regarded as the best player on the floor in that series. And now Giannis has overtaken him all of a sudden. It doesn’t even add up. It’s just speaks to the silliness and inconsistency of sports fans.

the timing on this isn’t great admittedly. He just got a ring and was the best player on the floor in the series and was historically great. So it doesn’t seem right to be raining on his parade a bit. 

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53 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

That ain’t the point. If Suns had won, is Devin Booker/CP3 now the best player in the league? Of course not and there are reasons for that. 

yes he kept on dominating and as he should really given he was very easily the best player of the teams remaining at the time. I just find it silly that a month ago, even with Bucks beating the Nets almost everyone was saying KD was the better of the two. He was regarded as the best player on the floor in that series. And now Giannis has overtaken him all of a sudden. It doesn’t even add up. It’s just speaks to the silliness and inconsistency of sports fans.

the timing on this isn’t great admittedly. He just got a ring and was the best player on the floor in the series and was historically great. So it doesn’t seem right to be raining on his parade a bit. 

Yeah nobody is raining on Giannis parade. I think of it in the same way as Brady v Mahomes in terms of who is the best QB right now? If you say long term resume its easily Brady. The last three seasons many say Mahomes. Well Brady won the Superbowl in 2018 but many think the Pats shouldnt have gotten to the Superbowl. Mahomes shouldve won the AFCCG but the refs cost him the game in regulation and he never touched the ball in OT. That led to many people saying OT rules should be changed. Then we know the Pats got to the Superbowl and won but Brady didnt look great at all against the Rams defense. 

Then the following season Brady got bounced by the Titans looking every bit of washed up. Meanwhile, Mahomes went to the Superbowl and won in comeback fashion against a great Niners team and defense. So people started to say Mahomes has overtaken Brady as the best QB in the NFL. Still a debate though because others was still saying Brady as the best QB. They said Brady had no help on offense that season and thats why he looked so badly and got bounced in the playoffs against the Titans. Then there are those that say well Brady has always made lesser talent around him look great in the past so why was that time any different?

This past season Brady had a great season and Mahomes had a great season even though by his standards it was down from his MVP season. They met in the Superbowl. Brady obviously had the tougher route going on the road to face Washington tough DL, then Brees in the New Orleans that beat him 2x and then ARod in Green Bay. Got to the Superbowl and the Bucs dominated the Chiefs. Yes the Chiefs OL was not healthy but on defense Brady picked the Cheifs apart. So now as we stand some still say Mahomes is the best QB because even though his OL was banged up he still made plays in the Superbowl that no other QB wouldve done under the circumstances. Plus there are those who said if Mahomes OL was relatively healthy the Chiefs win. Then there are those who say Brady is the best QB and proved it last season because you give him some help he can still play like an MVP caliber player and it just proves he had no help in New England his last few seasons and thats why he didnt look all that good but still dragged the team to the playoffs and won a Superbowl. So its a debate that can go both ways.

I look at Giannis and KD in a similar way now with those who still say KD is the best and those who now say Giannis is best. We are still talking about two great players. Timing can matter and right now Giannis timing is perfect. Even if he didnt win the title he is still a dominant player. Now though any question marks people had feels like its been answered so thats why this debate is more debatable as to who is the best player on the planet. But certainly nobody is trying to rain on Giannis parade. So I agree. 

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IMO, Durant has been the best player in the league for years. I've felt Durant was the best player 2-3 years prior to his injury and still believe he's the best player right now.

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1 hour ago, Kip Smithers said:

That ain’t the point. If Suns had won, is Devin Booker/CP3 now the best player in the league? Of course not and there are reasons for that. 

yes he kept on dominating and as he should really given he was very easily the best player of the teams remaining at the time. I just find it silly that a month ago, even with Bucks beating the Nets almost everyone was saying KD was the better of the two. He was regarded as the best player on the floor in that series. And now Giannis has overtaken him all of a sudden. It doesn’t even add up. It’s just speaks to the silliness and inconsistency of sports fans.

the timing on this isn’t great admittedly. He just got a ring and was the best player on the floor in the series and was historically great. So it doesn’t seem right to be raining on his parade a bit. 

Facts. Nets definitely beat the Bucks if they were healthy, which would have meant Bucks lose in the second round again. A title is a title, but sometimes you win due to injuries. That's what happened when the Raptors won their title a few years ago and that's what happened this year. It is what it is.

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1 minute ago, showtime said:

Facts. Nets definitely beat the Bucks if they were healthy, which would have meant Bucks lose in the second round again. A title is a title, but sometimes you win due to injuries. That's what happened when the Raptors won their title a few years ago and that's what happened this year. It is what it is.

You can put an asterisk on a lot of teams titles using this logic though, the best ability is availability.   

Do the Warriors beat the Cavaliers in LeBron's first year back if Love/Kyrie were playing?

Do the Raptors beat the Warriors if KD/Klay don't get injured? 

Do the Warriors beat the Spurs in the WCF in 2017 if ZaZa doesn't purposely hurt Kawhi?

Do the Lakers win the title in 2020 if the Nets/Warriors stars were healthy or if covid didn't stop the season for months and then force the playoffs to be played on a neutral court? 

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Even me, arguably the biggest homer on this site, who would've absolutely loved nothing more then to smear a Bucks failure into @beekay414 face, can't deny it. You are literally in denial if you don't think Giannis is the best player in the league right now. 

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5 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Because Giannis just had arguably the greatest NBA finals performance in history? 

This... if we can't change our opinion after a series like that, I don't know when we could. Besides the fact that he just played a level above what we're used to, he dispelled the notion that his playstyle was not conductive to championship basketball. 

 

For awhile now I've had a big 4 of Kawhi, Giannis, LBJ and Durant at the top, and it's close enough between those guys that a series or 2 can/will change my rankings. 

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42 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

This... if we can't change our opinion after a series like that, I don't know when we could. Besides the fact that he just played a level above what we're used to, he dispelled the notion that his playstyle was not conductive to championship basketball. 

100%. People act like Giannis was just some scrub that happened to have a crazy playoff run out of nowhere. Before the title and Finals MVP his resume already included:

• 2x MVP

* 1x DPOY (One of only 3 players to ever win MVP/DPOY same year)

• 3x 1st team All-NBA

• 2x 2nd team All-NBA 

• 3x 1st team All-NBA defense

• 1x 2nd team All-NBA defense 

The only question mark about Giannis was if he'd be able to do it in the post season and he just put up 35/11/5/2 on 60% FG including a 50 point performance in the series clincher. He's also the youngest Finals MVP in the modern era and at this point of his career is more accomplished than LeBron or Jordan. 

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12 hours ago, seminoles1 said:

But then Giannis kept playing and kept dominating. You stake your claim as the best in the Finals, not the 2nd round.

Opinions are allowed to change when the thing holding someone back is then proven wrong or outdated. That's what Giannis did. People held him back on their lists because of his playoff letdowns. That is now out the window, so why is it a problem to change our minds?

Giannis was putting up big numbers vs Nets and dominating as well.......Did you think Giannis was better than KD during that series or after it concluded? Ask yourself this, WHY did you think KD was better...Since I know or I'm pretty sure you said he was during that series. What has changed for you to believe after witnessing these two matched up in the same series that KD is no longer better? One of the main reasons you, and many others felt KD was better was because in all the tight games, he was the one who was able to take over in all of them. Games 3, 5 and 7 came down to the wire in that series. KD was great in all those 4th quarters single handedly keeping his team in the game and winning game 5. Did anything that you saw from Giannis after the Nets series that made you think if those two are matched up and the games come down to the 4th quarters, anything will be changing? Because if you just go off numbers, Giannis was freaking incredible in that Nets series as he is in damn near every series because he is unstoppable....I remember during that Nets series you saying you were getting stressed with how Giannis was struggling in late games attacking Blake...And do you think if KD played the Hawks/Suns, he was all of a sudden going to stop dominating? 

Now, I believe you CAN make an argument for Giannis. His argument is his durability and his Shaq like dominance. If you want to say something changed, you can say well he has changed his plan of attack and now he is getting more low post touches and rolls to the baskets preventing teams from building a wall. His ability to play HARD every single game is truly uncanny. Only Westbrook can match that but Giannis is actually not playing hard and reckless like him. He's a brute force who is getting better and better.

Again, do I think Giannis is the best player in the world? No, because I know if KD is in the same series against him with similar talent on both teams, he's going to still be able to have more impact late in games and will be able to win them by himself. But do I have a problem with anyone having Giannis as the best player? Hell no, he's really THAT dude and deserves all the praise he is getting for his playoff run. 

LeBron used to still have the throne as the best player in the world even after losses due to how he would dominate the playoffs and how his game was more built for the playoffs than anyone else. He's just too old now and was too mediocre in the Suns series to have a case. If he can show that was only due to the ankle injury, then he may not quite be the best player in the world, but match him up vs KD or Giannis or whoever, and he's going to prove to be on that level and will be able to compete with them. 

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12 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

That ain’t the point. If Suns had won, is Devin Booker/CP3 now the best player in the league? Of course not and there are reasons for that. 

yes he kept on dominating and as he should really given he was very easily the best player of the teams remaining at the time. I just find it silly that a month ago, even with Bucks beating the Nets almost everyone was saying KD was the better of the two. He was regarded as the best player on the floor in that series. And now Giannis has overtaken him all of a sudden. It doesn’t even add up. It’s just speaks to the silliness and inconsistency of sports fans.

the timing on this isn’t great admittedly. He just got a ring and was the best player on the floor in the series and was historically great. So it doesn’t seem right to be raining on his parade a bit. 

You're twisting my words here. I didn't say the best player in the world is always on the champions and I didn't say just because you're on the champions means you automatically have an argument for best player in the world.

The thing holding Giannis back for A LOT of people, including myself, has been his inability to come up big when it mattered. Giannis went toe-to-toe with Durant. He then absolutely obliterated everyone else in his path once that monkey was off his back, even after hurting his knee.

The thing keeping me from saying Giannis was #1 was the playoff wall he couldn't get past, over, whatever. That's gone because he just plowed through it. I called him the best player 2 years ago after he won his first MVP and was dominating the first 2 rounds...then he got stonewalled by Kawhi and the Raptors. I hesitated to call him the best after that and even called him a fraud a few times because of his struggles in the playoffs against Miami and then against hurt Brooklyn. All of that is out the window now because he showed me he could do it, he could adjust and find ways to make winning plays even if he wasn't the one scoring.

I've said the whole time that I understand the argument for Durant, but he'll have to play more than half a season for me to consider him the best. Otherwise why isn't LeBron still the best to everyone? He was killing it and the MVP favorite before he hurt his ankle twice.

I also want to say that your ability to give back-handed compliments to Giannis is astounding.

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