Malfatron Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Humble_Beast said: 1. Giannis Antetokounmpo 2. Anthony Davis (stock down because he was hurt, when healthy he dominates both ends) 3. Lebron James 4. Steph Curry 5. Kawhi Leonard 6. Kevin Durant 7. Luka Doncic 8. Joel Embiid 9. Nikola Jokic 10. James Harden That is a very humble font 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartica4Real Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1. Kevin Durant 2. Giannis Antetokounmpo 3. Kawhi Leonard 4. Steph Curry 5. LeBron James 6. Luka Doncic 7. Nikola Jokic 8. James Harden 9. Joel Embiid 10. Anthony Davis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDez Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 39 minutes ago, Spartica4Real said: 1. Kevin Durant 2. Giannis Antetokounmpo 3. Kawhi Leonard 4. Steph Curry 5. LeBron James 6. Luka Doncic 7. Nikola Jokic 8. James Harden 9. Joel Embiid 10. Anthony Davis Plus Lillard and I got 11 legit superstars going into next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lone star Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Luka outside of the top 5 is fine, but I got him ahead of LeBron now. But we'll see if Bron bounces back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lone star Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 What do you all think of the JKidd and Nico Harrison hirings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lone star Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 7 hours ago, NYRaider said: I'd have Luka just outside of the top 5 behind Giannis, Durant, LeBron, Kawhi, and Curry. Interested to see what the Mavericks do this off-season with Nico leading the front office and his relationships around the league. Obviously Kawhi Leonard would be a grand slam but I'm not sure how likely it is that he'll leave LA, especially after the ACL injury. Outside of Kawhi it's one of the weaker free agent classes that we've seen in recent memory, but next years free agent class could be one of the best in NBA history. I know the Mavericks want to win now but signing 1/2 guys to big deals could significantly impact their ability to be a player next summer. They gotta give Luka and Brunson extensions though, that's the thing. The Mavs will likely play the trade market, which is how they built up their first championship team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 25, 2021 Author Share Posted July 25, 2021 18 hours ago, NYRaider said: Over the last 3 seasons: Kawhi Leonard: 26.2 points, 7.0 rebounds, 4.5 assists on 49%/38%/87% splits Luka Doncic: 25.7 points, 8.4 rebounds, 7.7 assists on 46%/33%/73% splits Over that span Kawhi has been 1st team All-Defense once and 2nd team All-Defense twice. He has also led a team to a championship, been finals MVP, and beaten Luka in the 1st round of the playoffs twice. Even in their playoff series this year people don't give Kawhi enough credit for how well he played. Luka averaged 36/8/10 on 49/40/53 but Kawhi averaged 32/8/5 on 61/42/90. And if it weren't for Kawhi's injury in the second round I personally think there's a very good chance that the Clippers would've made the Finals. Their situations have obviously been different as Kawhi has been on great teams throughout his career in San Antonio, Toronto, and Los Angeles. While Luka hasn't really had a ton of talent around him in Dallas. Luka's clearly a better playmaker but in his current situation he has almost had to have the ball in his hands at all times in order for the Mavericks to be successful. Kawhi has scored more at a better clip and has had more success in the postseason. We've seen Kawhi be the guy on a championship team that beat the 76ers, Bucks, and Warriors in route to their title. So for me I'd personally rank Kawhi higher because he has proven to be just as potent of a scorer while also being one of the elite defensive players in the league. He has also won Finals MVP as a complimentary piece for one team and as "the guy" on another. Luka could easily surpass him and a lot of other guys very soon but I think that will only happen when he's able to win in the postseason. We've seen it with other great players like LeBron/Giannis who put up incredible individual production early in their careers but were knocked for their lack of postseason success. Luka's already considered a top 5/6 player without much postseason success, when/if he's able to lead a team to a title, I could easily see him being considered the best player in the league. I'm talking about now, not the last three seasons though. One of the weakest FMVP's of the last decade, and a few All D teams he didn't come close to earning have nothing to do with who is better right now. People assume Kawhi is this super elite defender all the time when in reality he's basically late career Kobe coasting on reputation and only tries when it really matters. You don't need to win playoff series to know someone is playing elite basketball. Check out 86 MJ. Imagine Luka and Kawhi switching teams this year. Dallas loses in 4 or 5 in round 1, and LAC wrecks everyone they play. The dude averaged 36/8/10 with one game where he couldn't really even feel his arm. In the other 6 games he was 38.5-8-11 on 51-45-59 with a +3.8 OnCourt rating. Maybe winning a gold medal would force people to realize how impactful he is offensively. The only thing Kawhi does better than Luka now is defend (when he feels like it, which isn't often) and make FT's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 8 hours ago, Bullet Club said: I'm talking about now, not the last three seasons though. One of the weakest FMVP's of the last decade, and a few All D teams he didn't come close to earning have nothing to do with who is better right now. People assume Kawhi is this super elite defender all the time when in reality he's basically late career Kobe coasting on reputation and only tries when it really matters. You don't need to win playoff series to know someone is playing elite basketball. Check out 86 MJ. Imagine Luka and Kawhi switching teams this year. Dallas loses in 4 or 5 in round 1, and LAC wrecks everyone they play. The dude averaged 36/8/10 with one game where he couldn't really even feel his arm. In the other 6 games he was 38.5-8-11 on 51-45-59 with a +3.8 OnCourt rating. Maybe winning a gold medal would force people to realize how impactful he is offensively. The only thing Kawhi does better than Luka now is defend (when he feels like it, which isn't often) and make FT's. Kawhi's career has been looked at through a weird lens. He was never an offensive superstar and defensive superstar at the same time. So when he was winning DPOY awards he was a great perimeter defender but wasn't a top-50 offensive player in the NBA, maybe top-100. When he was an offensive force his defense took a major step back. Still extremely good, but nowhere near the same level. But I feel like in discussions involving Kawhi people like to discuss him as being both things at the same time which has never been close to true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 8 hours ago, Bullet Club said: I'm talking about now, not the last three seasons though. One of the weakest FMVP's of the last decade, and a few All D teams he didn't come close to earning have nothing to do with who is better right now. People assume Kawhi is this super elite defender all the time when in reality he's basically late career Kobe coasting on reputation and only tries when it really matters. You don't need to win playoff series to know someone is playing elite basketball. Check out 86 MJ. Imagine Luka and Kawhi switching teams this year. Dallas loses in 4 or 5 in round 1, and LAC wrecks everyone they play. The dude averaged 36/8/10 with one game where he couldn't really even feel his arm. In the other 6 games he was 38.5-8-11 on 51-45-59 with a +3.8 OnCourt rating. Maybe winning a gold medal would force people to realize how impactful he is offensively. The only thing Kawhi does better than Luka now is defend (when he feels like it, which isn't often) and make FT's. Those are all fair points but I just think for Luka to make a leap over Kawhi it's going to take him winning in the post-season for it to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 19 hours ago, the lone star said: What do you all think of the JKidd and Nico Harrison hirings? Not a huge fan of Jason Kidd as a coach but I'm sure he has learned a ton being on the Lakers staff around LeBron/AD, seeing what it takes to win a title, manage superstars egos, and get role players to buy in. I like the Nico Harrison hiring in theory but it will be interesting to see how everything unfolds. If they're able to sign Kawhi this off-season it was a great hire. My one concern is that the Mavericks might settle on b-tier free agents this off-season with all of the cap space they have which then limits their ability to be a player in free agency next summer when a lot of top guys are set to hit the open market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 3 hours ago, roger murdock said: Kawhi's career has been looked at through a weird lens. He was never an offensive superstar and defensive superstar at the same time. So when he was winning DPOY awards he was a great perimeter defender but wasn't a top-50 offensive player in the NBA, maybe top-100. When he was an offensive force his defense took a major step back. Still extremely good, but nowhere near the same level. But I feel like in discussions involving Kawhi people like to discuss him as being both things at the same time which has never been close to true. 100%, KG and Hakeem benefit from that to an extent as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 2 hours ago, NYRaider said: Those are all fair points but I just think for Luka to make a leap over Kawhi it's going to take him winning in the post-season for it to happen. I understand that's how the general consensus feels but I am not particularly interested in waiting for certain arbitrary achievements to be met before I can validate how good a player is right now. You aren't great because you succeed, you succeed because you are great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 (edited) I think 2017 Kawhi was offensive/defensive superstar. EDIT: are people seriously putting Bron outside top 3/5? When will y’all learn (and I’m not the biggest Bron fan)? Edited July 26, 2021 by Kip Smithers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Kip Smithers said: I think 2017 Kawhi was offensive/defensive superstar. EDIT: are people seriously putting Bron outside top 3/5? When will y’all learn (and I’m not the biggest Bron fan)? The top level talent is too good right now. Not saying I would put him outside the top 5, but we just saw him look pretty mediocre in the playoffs and suffered a season altering injury in two of the past three seasons. It is one thing if he suffered those injuries and then returned in top form, but that didn't happen. He's also going to be in year 19 and will be 37 years old. Not crazy to think he's more so a bottom 10 player instead of a top 5 player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 KD and Dame can't even win games and Luka with no NBA help is dropping 48 points in his Olympic debut. The dude is unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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