Julian Edelman vs Calvin Johnson

[Tk3]

15 hours ago, ET80 said:

To add to this point - thought exercise:

Without the use of the internet, somebody tell me ...who was the MVP of SB19?

I'm going to wager nobody here can so without resorting to Google. As time passes, those three rings are going to be remembered as jewelry gifted by Tom Brady.

Nobody forgets a bust in Canton.

Bingo

Whether its fair or not

Whether Edelman has the SB MVP or not

Those are Brady's rings, just like all 6 Bulls rings are Jordan's

I'm pretty sure Iggy got an NBA Finals MVP, but everyone knows that was Curry's team and he was responsible and Iggy doesn't get the ring without him. That's the way history will work

[Tk3]

6 hours ago, TheGame316 said:

Aside from 2011 and 2012 Calvin Johnson didn't exactly have any other incredible seasons beyond a typical WR1 standard

Reported for giving the worst argument of all time

How about "Aside from 2016 and 2018 Julian Edelman didn't exactly have any other incredible playoff performances beyond a typical WR1 standard"

Do you see how stupid that sounds??

[Tk3]

6 hours ago, TheGame316 said:

Aside from 2011 and 2012 Calvin Johnson didn't exactly have any other incredible seasons beyond a typical WR1 standard

Why are you trying to throw away one of the greatest WR seasons of all time???

Receivers who have broken 1,900 yards:

1. Calvin Johnson
2. END OF LIST

Receivers who have broken 1,600 yards twice:

1. Calvin Johnson
2. Julio Jones
3. Antonio Brown
4. Marvin Harrison
5. Torry Holt

Receivers who have had 5,000 yards over a 3 year period:

1. Calvin Johnson
2. Antonio Brown
3. END OF LIST

This is the proof that he had an argument for the best 2-3 peak of all time.

It wasn't short lived (2 year) thing either - it was his entire career. His rookie season was his only season under 70 YPG. Calvin's average yards per game for the entirety of his career was 86 YPG. Only Julio Jones is higher.

Outside of those two years you want to throw away, he had five more years over 1,000 including seasons over 1,200, 1,300, and 1,400

It's correct to say that he didn't have 15 elite seasons. But his 9 seasons stack up against anyone in NFL history. Only Julio Jones, Torry Holt, and Jerry Rice had more yards in his first 9 seasons

You can't write off Calvin as a "two year wonder"

[Tk3]

On 4/14/2021 at 8:56 AM, Tk3 said:

I'm not dignifying this garbage with an actual analysis

Anyone suggesting Edelman > Calvin should be reported

I hate everyone for making me go back on my word on this

[lancerman]

20 hours ago, ET80 said:

To add to this point - thought exercise:

Without the use of the internet, somebody tell me ...who was the MVP of SB19?

I'm going to wager nobody here can so without resorting to Google. As time passes, those three rings are going to be remembered as jewelry gifted by Tom Brady.

Nobody forgets a bust in Canton.

I can name the MVP’s of every SB I watched. That said, Calvin Johnson is going to be remembered the same way Sterling Sharpe is remembered, insane peak but only hardcore football fans remember him. Edelman will be remembered the same way Roger Craig was remembered. 
 

People remember important players who were part of dynasty, even if they weren’t an all time great at their position. Edelman was in the most watched game of the year in 2011, 2014, 2016, and 2018 along with being in the semi final game in every year in between except 2017 when he was out injured. Not to mention based on his numbers he was insanely productive in the playoffs during that time. I doubt you can find a football fan or casual who knows Calvin Johnson and not Edelman. Both will fade from memory around the same time (Calvin didnt play long enough to really put him in that same class as Rice/Moss/TO/Hutson and Edelman just wasn’t as good). They will be people there very hardcore fans who watched them remember. The stat junkies might someday go look at CJ’s big season but for the most part he lags so far behind in all time stats to be celebrated that highly in those discussions. He’s an easy Sterling Sharpe comp and you can kinda see how much he’s remembered. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by lancerman

[Jameson_Neat]

I remember Roger Craig as the 1st player having 1000/1000 in the same season.

What does Edelman have that'll be remembered 30 years from now?

[incognito_man]

5 hours ago, Tk3 said:

Why are you trying to throw away one of the greatest WR seasons of all time???

Receivers who have broken 1,900 yards:

1. Calvin Johnson
2. END OF LIST

Receivers who have broken 1,600 yards twice:

1. Calvin Johnson
2. Julio Jones
3. Antonio Brown
4. Marvin Harrison
5. Torry Holt

Receivers who have had 5,000 yards over a 3 year period:

1. Calvin Johnson
2. Antonio Brown
3. END OF LIST

This is the proof that he had an argument for the best 2-3 peak of all time.

It wasn't short lived (2 year) thing either - it was his entire career. His rookie season was his only season under 70 YPG. Calvin's average yards per game for the entirety of his career was 86 YPG. Only Julio Jones is higher.

Outside of those two years you want to throw away, he had five more years over 1,000 including seasons over 1,200, 1,300, and 1,400

It's correct to say that he didn't have 15 elite seasons. But his 9 seasons stack up against anyone in NFL history. Only Julio Jones, Torry Holt, and Jerry Rice had more yards in his first 9 seasons

You can't write off Calvin as a "two year wonder"

gross stats are gross

history will always forget gross stats

[Tk3]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

I can name the MVP’s of every SB I watched. That said, Calvin Johnson is going to be remembered the same way Sterling Sharpe is remembered, insane peak but only hardcore football fans remember him. Edelman will be remembered the same way Roger Craig was remembered. 
 

People remember important players who were part of dynasty, even if they weren’t an all time great at their position. Edelman was in the most watched game of the year in 2011, 2014, 2016, and 2018 along with being in the semi final game in every year in between except 2017 when he was out injured. Not to mention based on his numbers he was insanely productive in the playoffs during that time. I doubt you can find a football fan or casual who knows Calvin Johnson and not Edelman. Both will fade from memory around the same time (Calvin didnt play long enough to really put him in that same class as Rice/Moss/TO/Hutson and Edelman just wasn’t as good). They will be people there very hardcore fans who watched them remember. The stat junkies might someday go look at CJ’s big season but for the most part he lags so far behind in all time stats to be celebrated that highly in those discussions. He’s an easy Sterling Sharpe comp and you can kinda see how much he’s remembered. 

When it comes to the Patriots dynasty people are going to remember Tom Brady. Full Stop.

You can argue that Gronk will be remembered, since he is also a Mount Rushmore of TEs... but like, Malcolm Butler and Adam Vinitieri are going to be the "other guys" who are remembered from the Pats dynasty.

Ain't nobody going to remember Edelman. Was it a big play? yeah it was.. but it isn't a play that is going to last in the zeitgeist. It's not the Malcolm Butler pick. It's not the helmet catch. It's not Kevin Dyson stopped at the 1 yard line. It's not either of Vinitieri's walk offs.

It's been 3 years and most of us have forgotten that play.

[incognito_man]

1 hour ago, BofaDeez54927 said:

I remember Roger Craig as the 1st player having 1000/1000 in the same season.

What does Edelman have that'll be remembered 30 years from now?

neither player cares what randos on a message board think lol

that's never been the argument

I GUARANTEE you that CJ is mad-jelly at all the hardware and memories Edelman has

he'll be thinking about that on his death bed. That's how elite competitive people are wired.

[Tk3]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

I can name the MVP’s of every SB I watched. That said, Calvin Johnson is going to be remembered the same way Sterling Sharpe is remembered, insane peak but only hardcore football fans remember him. Edelman will be remembered the same way Roger Craig was remembered. 
 

People remember important players who were part of dynasty, even if they weren’t an all time great at their position. Edelman was in the most watched game of the year in 2011, 2014, 2016, and 2018 along with being in the semi final game in every year in between except 2017 when he was out injured. Not to mention based on his numbers he was insanely productive in the playoffs during that time. I doubt you can find a football fan or casual who knows Calvin Johnson and not Edelman. Both will fade from memory around the same time (Calvin didnt play long enough to really put him in that same class as Rice/Moss/TO/Hutson and Edelman just wasn’t as good). They will be people there very hardcore fans who watched them remember. The stat junkies might someday go look at CJ’s big season but for the most part he lags so far behind in all time stats to be celebrated that highly in those discussions. He’s an easy Sterling Sharpe comp and you can kinda see how much he’s remembered. 

And bruh.. The only comparison with Calvin and Sharpe is that they both retired early. Sharpe's best year is Calvin's 3rd or 4th. 

[lancerman]

8 minutes ago, Tk3 said:

When it comes to the Patriots dynasty people are going to remember Tom Brady. Full Stop.

You can argue that Gronk will be remembered, since he is also a Mount Rushmore of TEs... but like, Malcolm Butler and Adam Vinitieri are going to be the "other guys" who are remembered from the Pats dynasty.

Ain't nobody going to remember Edelman. Was it a big play? yeah it was.. but it isn't a play that is going to last in the zeitgeist. It's not the Malcolm Butler pick. It's not the helmet catch. It's not Kevin Dyson stopped at the 1 yard line. It's not either of Vinitieri's walk offs.

It's been 3 years and most of us have forgotten that play.

Honestly it says more about your perception of football that you don’t remember a play I could bring up to any football fan and they would instantly know exactly what I’m talking about than the actual memorability of the play. Just like when you described Edelman as “above average who won 3 SB’s”. 
 

All time great players have publicly disagreed with that sentiment. 
 

Anyways you are kidding yourself if you think Edelman isn’t one of the more memorable parts of the dynasty. Brady is obviously first, Gronk is the best player at a skill position, but it’s between Vinatieri and Edelman for next as far as memorable plays and moments. 
 

And again, I’ll say that one guy retired disappointed in his situation and lost the will to play and another guy retired because he was forced to and got a heroes send off by his organization. 
 

That and Adriana Lima 

[lancerman]

12 minutes ago, Tk3 said:

And bruh.. The only comparison with Calvin and Sharpe is that they both retired early. Sharpe's best year is Calvin's 3rd or 4th. 

You are comparing early 90’s numbers to early 2010 numbers in the most era inflated stat in the sport. It’s dumb to even act like they are remotely comparable. Sterling led the league in receptions and TD’s more and only one less in yards. 
 

They were both guys that had incredible peaks that retired early so they won’t contend with the all timers people usually talk about 

[Jameson_Neat]

35 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

neither player cares what randos on a message board think lol

that's never been the argument

I GUARANTEE you that CJ is mad-jelly at all the hardware and memories Edelman has

he'll be thinking about that on his death bed. That's how elite competitive people are wired.

Thinking about it, yeah, if he's able to remember anything by then... but would he trade the gold jacket, the records the notoriety and what's probably about $80 million for it? 

For all we know the extra loot enabled him to build a weed empire in 2050.

 

 

 

 

[ET80]

3 hours ago, lancerman said:

I can name the MVP’s of every SB I watched.

Yet, I don't see you talking about Marcus Allen - MVP of SB19.

Appreciate you proving my point.

3 hours ago, lancerman said:

Calvin Johnson is going to be remembered the same way Sterling Sharpe is remembered, insane peak but only hardcore football fans remember him.

So, an All Decade, HoF WR who currently holds the single season yardage record isn't going to be remembered? Only hardcore fans are going to recall one of the 22 best players from the 00s? 

I remember Sharpe, but he didn't come close to achieving All Decade status or HoF status. He was on his way prior to injury, but... Injuries are a thing.

(People also have a tendency to remember his more outspoken brother).

This... is a pretty bad take. You're ignoring a LOT of what Megatron did, simply because it doesn't frame your argument correctly.

[incognito_man]

19 minutes ago, ET80 said:

So, an All Decade, HoF WR who currently holds the single season yardage record isn't going to be remembered? Only hardcore fans are going to recall one of the 22 best players from the 00s? 

Yes. This is exactly right. People base their recollection on only a few memorable moments. I'm not sure CJ had enough of those. If you ask a very casual fan to list as many NFL WRs as they can (even today), I think Calvin Johnson is pretttttty far down that list even with the benefit of recency bias.