Julian Edelman vs Calvin Johnson

[lancerman]

41 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

I already answered this, id rather be the best. Its a very easy answer. Not many athletes want to be just a guy on a really good team, which is mostly what Edelman was. And i care about his playoff performances as much as i do hines ward or deion branch or whatever right guard that made a couple really good blocks one game... which is not much. 

 

Theres a reason why this vote is so lopesided. The answer is obvious. But i am curious about the Orlovsky or Rivers thing in your eyes. Orlovsky certainly had a much easier job, work life balance was better almost certainly better and he parlayed it into a strong career at ESPN. Which do you prefer?

I think Orlovsky/Rivers isn’t the same comparison because one is about their football careers and one is about whether one career field is tangibly better than a different career field. Like as a football player I think Dan would have preferred his career end up like Rivers and I really see no reason why Rivers couldn’t easily get an Orlovsky television role. 
 

To your first point though there’s a lot of guys that wouldn’t want to be the amazing talent stuck on the bad franchise who wasted away there and then retired to little fanfare always on the outside looking in on post season greatness. 

[Soko]

It’s the career earnings, for me.

If the money was close, it’s a much closer discussion IMO. All-time, HOF status but always played for a loser vs a solid player who’ll be franchise-famous although ultimately forgotten, but has enjoyed perennial winning, SBs, and a SB MVP award. Megatron still probably takes that, but being a lone bright spot on a bum franchise isn’t that appealing - although I’m sure he can take his ring less fingers and dry his tears with the gold HOF jacket...

But double, nearly triple career earnings? Over a hundred million? C’mon. I’m sure football’s grueling when you aren’t winning - but for two and a half times the cash? I’ll take the years of “suffering”.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Yin-Yang

[Hunter2_1]

17 hours ago, Tk3 said:

 

Was Edelman ever a top 10 players on any of those super bowl teams? 

 

Easily. He was Superbowl MVP. He was clearly a top 10 player on that team. 

[SilverNBlackFan]

I thought I was dreaming but this is really a thread? Like the op legit typed those words?

[Tk3]

48 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

I thought I was dreaming but this is really a thread? Like the op legit typed those words?

Not only that, but people are arguing in favor of it AND they are acting like we are unreasonable for thinking they are crazy

It's a weird world, man

[IheartMyV8]

2 minutes ago, Tk3 said:

Not only that, but people are arguing in favor of it AND they are acting like we are unreasonable for thinking they are crazy

It's a weird world, man

Nahh.  It's mostly because a lot of posters are reading it as "who's better."  A number of others are just whittling it down to money (although neither are hurting for cash I'm sure).  After that it really comes down to what an individual interprets a successful career to be and how much one individual puts on championships vs enshrinement.  We're also going to start seeing individual regular season stats rocketing as the league starts adding games, so regular season statistics are going to be ballooning, with playoff expansion as well.

I dipped into google to see if there's any say from players/league about what's more important; the money or the titles, and (as expected) it can go both ways.  I'm sure there's more, better sources out there but this was a quick skim. 

https://waitingfornextyear.com/2017/03/money-winning-nfl-free-agency/

https://www.denverpost.com/2011/02/01/do-players-really-love-money-more-than-the-game/

I still think it's an interesting debate, and neither position is wrong.
 

[NeptunePenguins]

Wow this is one of the most lopsided polls I have seen. I guess the people on Twitter/Reddit were mostly just the really vocal minorities of the situation that I payed way too much attention to (like always). 

[lancerman]

1 hour ago, NeptunePenguins said:

Wow this is one of the most lopsided polls I have seen. I guess the people on Twitter/Reddit were mostly just the really vocal minorities of the situation that I payed way too much attention to (like always). 

No it’s what the other guy said, most posters here either took the poll as “better player” or got offended by the question and when you broke their reasoning down it came down to them being unable to separate it from who is the better player. 
 

The question of what is better between an all time great on a stagnant losing franchise and an above average player who had championship heroics isn’t uncommon in sports. It’s pretty much the microcosm of Dan Marino’s career where if he had remotely any post season success he’d be talked of as the GOAT but now there’s an air of a disappointment when he’s discussed because everyone knows what he lacks while Troy Aikman won 3 SB’s, no All Pros, never led the league in a single stat, and is a megastar superhero for his team despite almost everyone viewing him as merely above average by comparison 

[Hunter2_1]

57 minutes ago, lancerman said:

No it’s what the other guy said, most posters here either took the poll as “better player” or got offended by the question and when you broke their reasoning down it came down to them being unable to separate it from who is the better player. 
 

The question of what is better between an all time great on a stagnant losing franchise and an above average player who had championship heroics isn’t uncommon in sports. It’s pretty much the microcosm of Dan Marino’s career where if he had remotely any post season success he’d be talked of as the GOAT but now there’s an air of a disappointment when he’s discussed because everyone knows what he lacks while Troy Aikman won 3 SB’s, no All Pros, never led the league in a single stat, and is a megastar superhero for his team despite almost everyone viewing him as merely above average by comparison 

I agree with your post. I also think a lot of the disconnect here is people seeing Julian as nothing near an above average player. I don't think he's ever endangering a top 15 WR list even at his peak, but people saying you could just plug any random guy in there and have the same production - wrong. Just read what Brady and Bill said about him. Did they not watch the SBs? He's far better than Amandola ever was for example. Brady's stats with and without him show clear variance. He was better than a lot of people are remembering. 

(I'm obviously not saying he's anywhere near Calvin)

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Hunter2_1

[lancerman]

1 hour ago, Hunter2_1 said:

I agree with your post. I also think a lot of the disconnect here is people seeing Julian as nothing near an above average player. I don't think he's ever endangering a top 15 WR list even at his peak, but people saying you could just plug any random guy in there and have the same production - wrong. Just read what Brady and Bill said about him. Did they not watch the SBs? He's far better than Amandola ever was for example. Brady's stats with and without him show clear variance. He was better than a lot of people are remembering. 

(I'm obviously not saying he's anywhere near Calvin)

 

Exactly. Two things can be true. Calvin can be better the player and Edelman can have had the more fulfilling career based on the stage and moments he's been able to contribute in. Edelman is the type of guy who would have been forgotten to history if you only looked at regular season. Now he's a guy who will have his highlights and biggest catches (and that pass in the Ravens game) played over and over again and when historians talk about post season receiving it's going to be him and Rice at the top of those leader boards. 

People who think you could plug any random guy into Edelman's spot are ignorant though. He's always been one of the most versatile receivers in the league and does everything well, he's just not super high end in any one area. But for years he was Brady's safety blanket. When things weren't clicking Brady would just spam Edelman until he got in a groove and it opened other things up. There's a reason they struggled in 2015 the minute he went down and why the one SB they didn't win of the last 4 was the one he wasn't present for... plus the whole SB MVP. He absolutely was integral to that second run in the dynasty. 

[Tk3]

3 hours ago, lancerman said:

No it’s what the other guy said, most posters here either took the poll as “better player” or got offended by the question and when you broke their reasoning down it came down to them being unable to separate it from who is the better player. 
 

The question of what is better between an all time great on a stagnant losing franchise and an above average player who had championship heroics isn’t uncommon in sports. It’s pretty much the microcosm of Dan Marino’s career where if he had remotely any post season success he’d be talked of as the GOAT but now there’s an air of a disappointment when he’s discussed because everyone knows what he lacks while Troy Aikman won 3 SB’s, no All Pros, never led the league in a single stat, and is a megastar superhero for his team despite almost everyone viewing him as merely above average by comparison 

stop insulting us

we understand the question

it's just a blatantly obvious answer

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

15 hours ago, Tk3 said:

stop insulting us

we understand the question

it's just a blatantly obvious answer

Yeah I haven't seen a single person arguing here making the case that it was ever about Megatron being a better player than Edelman. Like, yes that is a factor but everyone understands that the question is "which career would you rather have?", and the answer is still obviously Megatron's.

[iknowcool]

2 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Yeah I haven't seen a single person arguing here making the case that it was ever about Megatron being a better player than Edelman. Like, yes that is a factor but everyone understands that the question is "which career would you rather have?", and the answer is still obviously Megatron's.

But it is an preference based question.  How can the answer be obvious?

What is unreasonable about wanting to prefer being on multiple championship winning teams, even if it means you didn't have as much individual success and/or made less money?  It ain't like Edelman ever gonna have to fret about cash.

People have different preferences.  There is absolutely nothing wrong about wanting to, as an athlete, be on a team that wins a lot of titles (and still be an important starter) over being a great player who never saw any amount of team success.  Same thing vice versa.  And yet, only one side of it seems to want to insult the other's preference (the Calvin side).

Edited April 20, 2021 by iknowcool

[dtait93]

2 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Yeah I haven't seen a single person arguing here making the case that it was ever about Megatron being a better player than Edelman. Like, yes that is a factor but everyone understands that the question is "which career would you rather have?", and the answer is still obviously Megatron's.

I would rather have Edelman's career.

[pwny]

I think the people saying this isn’t a debate are kinda missing the mark. On an individual level, Calvin’s output and his value added to the teams he played for far exceed that of Edelman. And in that way, Calvin’s career far surpasses that of most receivers ever. He was a far superior player. 

But there is certainly something to be said for being a part of things bigger than your accomplishments alone. Winning the ultimate prize in the sport three separate times, there’s something special about that. Kids don’t grow up dreaming of having 1900 yards in a season and losing in the playoffs. They dream of making the big play in the big game so they can raise that Lombardi.