In terms of overall value where does obj rank today?

[Kiwibrown]

Looking to see what people think of obj? Where would you place him with his overall value to an organization and where do you rank him among current nfl receivers? 

[MagicMT]

OBJ used to be one of the most exciting player to watch in the NFL but sadly the injuries have sapped him of his top-flight speed and elusiveness / shiftiness. 
He's just not that YAC guy anymore and I think he's a middle of the pack WR nowadays. 
When you factor in his salary + his injury history I don't think he's worth much to an organization... 
It's sad because young OBJ was a threat every time he touched the ball and what a player he was in his first 3 seasons! 

[Blackstar12]

He’s in the upper middle tier now. First reason being the injuries history. The second being the slew of new young WRs.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Blackstar12

[Raves]

I think he could have some great seasons again, but he's not going to be the #1 anymore.

[dtait93]

That contract with that attitude with that production? I don't find him that valuable. Hard to say where he ranks compared to other receivers since he's been pretty injury riddled.

[DontTazeMeBro]

He’s still probably one of the best WRs in the league. If he still has his speed I don’t see any reason he wouldn’t be.

[Tk3]

Not top 10

I haven't put together a list, but there are a lot of guys ahead of him

There's still value because he was THAT good early on in his career, but he has to prove it again

[AkronsWitness]

I know he has had injuries, but he looked completely healthy last year from a athletic standpoint.

Fact is he has been in one of the worst QB/offensive scheme situations of any premier WR in the last 4 years.

As a believer in WR production is a direct correlation with QB performance--- put him on the Packers, Chiefs, or whoever else and watch him go for 1,400 yards and 10TDs.

He's never going to get the targets needed to get those numbers in Cleveland run first offense so people will always think he is washed.

Edited April 16, 2021 by AkronsWitness

[Phinsesq]

On 4/13/2021 at 7:46 PM, MagicMT said:

OBJ used to be one of the most exciting player to watch in the NFL but sadly the injuries have sapped him of his top-flight speed and elusiveness / shiftiness. 
He's just not that YAC guy anymore and I think he's a middle of the pack WR nowadays. 
When you factor in his salary + his injury history I don't think he's worth much to an organization... 
It's sad because young OBJ was a threat every time he touched the ball and what a player he was in his first 3 seasons! 

No sense in reinventing the wheel, you hit the nail on the head for me. He is still young enough to prove me wrong though.  

[Soko]

On 4/15/2021 at 11:21 PM, AkronsWitness said:

He's never going to get the targets needed to get those numbers in Cleveland run first offense so people will always think he is washed.

That’s not really accurate. In 2020 and 2017, he missed a majority of both seasons because he’s a guy that’s oft-injured. In 2018, he ranked 18th in the league in targets, despite playing in only 70% of snaps. In 2019, his first in Cleveland, OBJ ranked 15th in targets and had a horrendous catch percentage. Second worst among 40 players that saw 100+ targets. 

You can debate if OBJ’s lost a step or not (although, to me, it’s painfully obvious that he’s lost a step since his prime Giant days), but blaming this conception on targets or numbers as a reason is nonsense. 

 

[Thomas5737]

On 4/15/2021 at 11:21 PM, AkronsWitness said:

Fact is he has been in one of the worst QB/offensive scheme situations of any premier WR in the last 4 years.

As a believer in WR production is a direct correlation with QB performance--- put him on the Packers, Chiefs, or whoever else and watch him go for 1,400 yards and 10TDs.

What is odd is that OBJ caught 53.5% of his targets and Landry caught 71.3%, Higgins caught 71.2%, People-Jones caught 70%, tight ends were all around 65% and the backs were 74.5 and 88.9%.

So it makes you wonder if the QB is the problem. Besides his rookie year OBJ never had a catch percentage as high as any of the guys I mentioned above in any other season of his career, or even close. You might think well he is a deep threat type but he only averages 14 per catch in his career. Higgins averaged 16.3 per catch last year and Peoples-Jones averaged 21.7, both marks OBJ has never been close to in any season of his career.

OBJ's production may not have been all his fault but he is the only receiving option that had issues for the Browns last year statistically. It doesn't prove anything but the numbers indicate that everyone else produced in that system but him so my conclusion wouldn't be that the system failed but the one outlier wasn't up to par with everyone else on the team.

It's with reason of course. He got force fed because he wants force fed and gets aggravated on the field at times when he isn't getting targets but I wouldn't blame his struggles on everyone else. He is at best a 60% catch rate and 14 yards per reception guy, at least since his rookie year and that isn't upper tier among #1 receivers. Probably not even at league average for all WR.

[AkronsWitness]

2 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

What is odd is that OBJ caught 53.5% of his targets and Landry caught 71.3%, Higgins caught 71.2%, People-Jones caught 70%, tight ends were all around 65% and the backs were 74.5 and 88.9%.

So it makes you wonder if the QB is the problem. Besides his rookie year OBJ never had a catch percentage as high as any of the guys I mentioned above in any other season of his career, or even close. You might think well he is a deep threat type but he only averages 14 per catch in his career. Higgins averaged 16.3 per catch last year and Peoples-Jones averaged 21.7, both marks OBJ has never been close to in any season of his career.

OBJ's production may not have been all his fault but he is the only receiving option that had issues for the Browns last year statistically. It doesn't prove anything but the numbers indicate that everyone else produced in that system but him so my conclusion wouldn't be that the system failed but the one outlier wasn't up to par with everyone else on the team.

It's with reason of course. He got force fed because he wants force fed and gets aggravated on the field at times when he isn't getting targets but I wouldn't blame his struggles on everyone else. He is at best a 60% catch rate and 14 yards per reception guy, at least since his rookie year and that isn't upper tier among #1 receivers. Probably not even at league average for all WR.

I also wonder if his routes have something to do with his low catch%. At least since he's been on the Browns the majority of his target share is on longer developing routes and deeper shots. 

It's likely a blend of a lot of things. 1) QB forcing him the ball 2) Low percentage routes 3) His own issues 

[Tk3]

3 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

OBJ's production may not have been all his fault but he is the only receiving option that had issues for the Browns last year statistically. It doesn't prove anything but the numbers indicate that everyone else produced in that system but him so my conclusion wouldn't be that the system failed but the one outlier wasn't up to par with everyone else on the team.

I think we've seen enough to prove that Baker/OBJ combo just doesn't work. Burrow/AJ Green didn't work either. Sometimes a specific pairing just don't match up well, even if lesser players seem to work better

If I'm the Browns and I see a player in the draft who I like, I'd move OBJ for the pick. He might be a 1st+ value guy, but if you're only getting 3rd/4th round value on the field, and paying him $15 mil, you gotta part ways, IMO

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said:

I also wonder if his routes have something to do with his low catch%. At least since he's been on the Browns the majority of his target share is on longer developing routes and deeper shots. 

It's likely a blend of a lot of things. 1) QB forcing him the ball 2) Low percentage routes 3) His own issues 

I don't think it's low percentage routes I think it is inability to separate. That's where forcing him the ball comes in because he just doesn't separate from the opponents #1 CB as well as everyone else separates against who they are matched up with. He does drop a lot of passes and he and Landry both too often attempt one hand grabs when they don't have to and that leads to more drops. He is probably best suited as a slot guy as long as the other team doesn't give him a lot of attention. If they put in the effort to stop the OBJ from earlier in his career there just isn't much he can do about it. Doesn't matter if A-Rod is throwing him the ball or Pat Mahomes. It would help him that on those teams he would obviously not be the #1 and should face weaker coverage but the same thing would be true if the Browns had a #1 WR.

[Thomas5737]

31 minutes ago, Tk3 said:

I think we've seen enough to prove that Baker/OBJ combo just doesn't work. Burrow/AJ Green didn't work either. Sometimes a specific pairing just don't match up well, even if lesser players seem to work better

If I'm the Browns and I see a player in the draft who I like, I'd move OBJ for the pick. He might be a 1st+ value guy, but if you're only getting 3rd/4th round value on the field, and paying him $15 mil, you gotta part ways, IMO

AJ can't get separation, even more so than OBJ so that's not going to work anywhere if you are expecting him to be a top receiver. He'll just be a role player in AZ I imagine. OBJ can still be a more than that but he isn't like a top 10 receiver or anything and if he is your #1 you don't have a #1. Not that you need a #1 but you can't treat him like one and expect him to win the majority of 50/50 balls because he doesn't.

You're right, he isn't worth his salary but that doesn't mean you have to move on. You just use him differently and know he is overpaid and live with it.