With the Signing of Vince Williams is ILB off the Draft Board?

[Steeler Hitman]

The Steelers officially signed ILB Vince Williams today, making the ILB position a bit deeper than it was at the beginning of the off season. With the signing of VW does it take ILB off the board completely or at least early? There are some good ILB prospects that would be very good compliments to build around next to Bush.

Potential Depth Chart:

Bush - - Potential Superstar coming off injury

Spillane - - Rising player set to hit free agency in 2022. A 1B, but not 1A.

Williams - - One last run at #7 with Ben and the ole' guard

Gilbert - - Always hurt, but has shown flashes of athleticism, but not great LB play (due to injuries).

Allen- Hybrid Safety/Dime-backer

Brooks - Hybrid Safety/Dime-backer

Killebrew -  Hybrid Safety/Dime-backer

Draft Prospects:

Micah Parsons - - Best of the group. If he fell to 24 definitely BPA.

JOK - Great athlete who fits the Hybrid role, but can cover and hit as well. Undersized for ILB, but you find a spot for this type of player.

Zaven Collins  - - would still be hard for me to pass up, but seems like more a luxury/insurance pick rather than a pure need despite having major potential questions in 2022 after Bush.

Jamin Davis - - Would be a very solid 1B. Great balance

Jabril Cox - - Solid coverage skills and upside. Has height, but a little concerned about him inside versus run. Probably better in coverage than Bush though. 

Nick Bolton - - Younger and probably better skilled version of VW at ILB. Future VW replacement/ pretty solid 1B.

Baron Browning - - Like the bunch of Ohio State LB'ers he's an athlete who moves well.

Derrick Barnes - - My favorite under the radar guy.  He would be a very solid compliment next to Bush. He is faster and more athletic than he is given credit for being. Former HS RB. Has a solid football IQ as well. 

My thoughts: Depending on who is there in what round, who may fall in the Steelers laps, and/or if everyone else is gone, who is left.  Edge is definitely more of a priority than ILB for 2021. You can take the approach of preparing for a potential empty shelf in 2022 and questions for 2021 with Bush's return/health. Spillane and Williams are more 1B types and are not the potential 1A that some of the other players could be (Parsons, JOK, Collins, Davis, and I will even add Barnes). 

Spillane and Williams could be a decent ILB duo, but they don't make the defense elite without Bush. A player like Parson, JOK, Collins could make the middle of the Steelers defense elite, but at what cost? RB, OT, Edge, C/IOL, CB, or TE.   All need some talent there as well. We could debate that beyond the three, there are questions with Grant who could be replace/upgraded by anyone listed due to his lack of being able to even stay on the field. Allen, Brooks and Killebrew are all more SS or a dime ILB than a traditional true  ILB who can play in the 3-4 or as an ILB in the Nickel.  

If a player like JOK or Parson's fell, I would draft them as the BPA and while it may shake up some things, I wouldn't feel terribly bad because they would still improve this football team.  Collins is still intriguing because he could fill in at ILB and depth at Edge with his size. I don't know if Collins is the pick at 24 now or even if it came down to Collins or say one of the other more traditional  Edge players, that I would take Collins. 

In the third or fourth round players like Cox, Browning and Barnes would definitely give me pause.  There have been reports that Avery Williams may even be coming back. If that happens, then ILB would be completely off the board in my eyes.  Right now, I would still consider the position, but I am not running to the podium as fast as I would have a week or so. 

What are your thoughts now that VW is back?

 

 

[jebrick]

If given a chance to draft speed on defense they will do it. If Browning is there in the 2nd I think they might go there.

[MOSteelers56]

I'd agree with @jebrick . I think it takes a lot of the pressure off. We probably won't take one in the 1st. In fact, I'd say it is extremely unlikely we do. I think if we can get a guy like Browning in the 2nd or Werner in the 3rd, we'd do it. Vince is probably finished after this year. Spillane, IMO, is JAG. The other guys are camp fodder. We're not set up in the long term at ILB, but we're set this year. 

[warfelg]

If it is it will be 4th or later. 

[warfelg]

2 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Vince is probably finished after this year.

He’s actually said it’s his last year. 

[CKSteeler]

12 minutes ago, warfelg said:

He’s actually said it’s his last year. 

Source?

[warfelg]

Missrembered the quote slightly. 

[kurgan]

I think, in theory, it makes it less than a need with the obvious BPA caveats applied.

I'm actually the opposite... I think this makes a middle round ILB LESS of a chance.  With guys that can take snaps that we already need to see more from (Allen/UG3/Brooks) I really can't see us taking a guy in 3-6 that is a ILB mold over a bigger developmental need like OL/TE/Edge/CB.

You also have to remember that schematically, a ILB partner with Bush would really only play base unless they are a nickel/big S capable player.

I really see it as JOK in round 1, and maybe Collins at #55 if he somehow slides.  Then no ILB until 7-UDFA.

The Front Office has shown us that they do not care about leaving the room blank in the future the way they are treating the QB and CB this year, and OT last year.  I don't think they are much worried about next year or the next when it comes to team building.

[43M]

I voted its completely off the board....but I meant for the first round.

I doubt we draft one until day 3 unless its someone they are very high on that falls.   Too many other glaring needs.

[SteelersFan2333]

I could see it happening:

Bush- coming off injury 

Spillane- average to decent, had injury problems 

VW- slow, can’t cover, last year for him?

Everyone else- more of a hybrid option and below average 

You have one injury to the top 3 guys or Bush still has lingering issues and you’re screwed. I really don’t think it’s a first round option, but if Parsons or JOK are there and could see it happen and I’d be happy with it. I don’t have a lot of confidence in our offense, we may need to depend on the D to be elite. Overall I think it’s a 3-7 option but if you love a guy and he’s there grab him. 

[MOSteelers56]

I think Pete Werner would still be a good pick in the 3rd. That guy is already better than every ILB on the roster except for Bush and maybe Vince. 

[Steeler Hitman]

11 hours ago, kurgan said:

I think, in theory, it makes it less than a need with the obvious BPA caveats applied.

Glad to get your input my friend. I highly respect your thoughts.

I'm actually the opposite... I think this makes a middle round ILB LESS of a chance. 

Interesting. My thought here would be if a player like Derrick Barnes slips to the fourth with two picks. He may not be great at one thing, but he can do it all. Not a lot of traditional 3-4 being played and more specialty, but the types that we have are either more hybrid which they are not really ILB's and outside of Bush not a lot of inside speed/quickness although I think Spillane (when healthy) is better then given credit for as well. I see a bit of a void/hole behind Bush.

With guys that can take snaps that we already need to see more from (Allen/UG3/Brooks) I really can't see us taking a guy in 3-6 that is a ILB mold over a bigger developmental need like OL/TE/Edge/CB.

I would agree that the priority has definitely dropped from "a definite need." OT is fairly deep. There are very solid options at Center that could be drafted between 2-5, CB we need more depth and a replacement for Haden to groom, and the Edge cupboard is definitely bare behind Watt, Highsmith, and Marsh. 

You also have to remember that schematically, a ILB partner with Bush would really only play base unless they are a nickel/big S capable player.

I agree, but that is also because of the players/talent that is there. Teams will run more with Hybrid guys like Allen in there. Having a bigger athletic body like Collins, Cox, or Browning makes the defense a bit tougher without sacrificing athleticism. VW is a great blitzer and so so in coverage, so the team puts the hybrid in. Teams like the Browns and Ravens gashed us because we didn't have that ILB who could read, flow quickly, and have the size to play inside. Size/Speed is what I think the defense needs. But not at the expense of the other needs. I just think it is hard to ignore getting another good ILB. It may pay bigger dividends than we may think. Losing potential pro bowl LB's Bush and Dupree hurt the run defense. At times the Steelers had trouble stopping offenses and teams definitely ran better after those two went down. 

I really see it as JOK in round 1, and maybe Collins at #55 if he somehow slides.  Then no ILB until 7-UDFA.

I would not be disappointed with either player.  I cannot argue with your thinking either. I am just saying that I would consider taking a decent mid-round ILB like Barnes. I like KJ Britt, but he is more VW than the type of rangy/quick/fast guy that I would want to add inside.

The Front Office has shown us that they do not care about leaving the room blank in the future the way they are treating the QB and CB this year, and OT last year.  I don't think they are much worried about next year or the next when it comes to team building.

Hard to argue that. I think they are trying to be in a win now mold. I think they chose Chase Claypool over JK Dobbins which was really thinking that they may lose Ju Ju before Connor. They believed Connor could handle the RB load and wanted to have a WR groomed for year two. I understand both sides of the coin, but I think you have to weigh it as it comes. I don't want to see the team reach for a need and ignore a solid prospect. They have been burned too many times with that. 

2 hours ago, SteelersFan2333 said:

I could see it happening:

Bush- coming off injury 

I have some concern here as well. Coming off an injury, I would feel more comfortable having someone who was similar who could take some reps from Bush here while he gets back into the flow. But truthfully, this is luxury thinking on my part. 

Spillane- average to decent, had injury problems 

Spillane's injuries were not to the extent of season ending. No bye week, three games inside of ten days took its toll on the Steelers. I think Spillane is better than he is given credit for being. I think he is far more 1B than 1A.

VW- slow, can’t cover, last year for him?

VW is the modern day cross between Levon Kirkland and Earl Holmes type of ILB. I don't think the Steelers use Vince to his strengths and let team's exploit VW's weaknesses more than using his strengths to their advantage. VW in on second and third and long is a detriment to the defense unless he's blitzing.

Everyone else- more of a hybrid option and below average 

Agreed. That is my biggest concern. Although, I do like the signing of Killebrew. However,  I see him as more a third safety/taking some Mike Hilton reps than as an ILB. 

You have one injury to the top 3 guys or Bush still has lingering issues and you’re screwed. I really don’t think it’s a first round option, but if Parsons or JOK are there and could see it happen and I’d be happy with it. I don’t have a lot of confidence in our offense, we may need to depend on the D to be elite. Overall I think it’s a 3-7 option but if you love a guy and he’s there grab him. 

You and everyone else make excellent points and it makes it hard to take one position. I was saw ILB as a potential #1 pick,  but I am a little less likely to believe that unless the cream of the crop falls (Parsons/JOK). Not an easy choice to make here. I do think that signing VW takes the "priority" off the board, but maybe not the need.

[Steeler Hitman]

6 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I think Pete Werner would still be a good pick in the 3rd. That guy is already better than every ILB on the roster except for Bush and maybe Vince. 

My concerns with Werner are his quickness (foot, not brain), ability to tackle in space on the next level and coverage ability. He would be VW 2.0. That is not a knock, but not necessarily what the defense needs. Can he play and will he get better? Absolutely, but with the Steelers defensive scheme and type of player they need, he is not as good a fit (IMO) as Browning, Cox, or even my guy Barnes who is similar in style, but I think a little more athletically gifted, faster, and quicker. 

[MOSteelers56]

12 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

My concerns with Werner are his quickness (foot, not brain), ability to tackle in space on the next level and coverage ability. He would be VW 2.0. That is not a knock, but not necessarily what the defense needs. Can he play and will he get better? Absolutely, but with the Steelers defensive scheme and type of player they need, he is not as good a fit (IMO) as Browning, Cox, or even my guy Barnes who is similar in style, but I think a little more athletically gifted, faster, and quicker. 

None of this is true. Werner was the coverage backer for OSU. He shut down Freiermuth. He tested really well at his pro day too, sub 7 3 cone. Werner isn't as athletic as Browning, few are, but he's very athletic.  The draftniks that are saying this about him clearly haven't watched him. 

[cjfollett]

22 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

The Steelers officially signed ILB Vince Williams today, making the ILB position a bit deeper than it was at the beginning of the off season. With the signing of VW does it take ILB off the board completely or at least early? There are some good ILB prospects that would be very good compliments to build around next to Bush.

Not at all. They brought Vince back at a much reduced rate, but that doesn't guarantee him a spot on the final 53. If a top prospect is there in the draft, or if some other team cuts an aging vet, the Steelers will not hesitate to upgrade their team.

My thoughts: Depending on who is there in what round, who may fall in the Steelers laps, and/or if everyone else is gone, who is left.  Edge is definitely more of a priority than ILB for 2021. You can take the approach of preparing for a potential empty shelf in 2022 and questions for 2021 with Bush's return/health. Spillane and Williams are more 1B types and are not the potential 1A that some of the other players could be (Parsons, JOK, Collins, Davis, and I will even add Barnes). 

I tend to agree that Edge/OLB is a priority, but I think Center and OT are of equal need. ILB is just not that high on the list for me.

If a player like JOK or Parson's fell, I would draft them as the BPA and while it may shake up some things, I wouldn't feel terribly bad because they would still improve this football team.  Collins is still intriguing because he could fill in at ILB and depth at Edge with his size. I don't know if Collins is the pick at 24 now or even if it came down to Collins or say one of the other more traditional  Edge players, that I would take Collins. 

I tend to be more realistic. I do not expect players of that caliber to make it past 15, much less 24. I also think the Steelers have too many needs to trade up this year. So, my guess is they stay put or trade down. I don't have a good feel for what they'll do, but I am almost positive it won't be ILB. I think it will be C, OT, OLB, or RB, depending on who is available.