Trading Down

[Texas_OutLaw7]

I'm not sure why you are so hellbent on trying to convince us that we should take a DL in this weak class. 

Are your cowboys friends really that enamored with DL this year?

The fans of the cowboys on this forum gave out 18 first round grades. Only one was a DL - and it wasn't Paye.

 

 

[plan9misfit]

59 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

So you are interested in tall midgets, which brings us back to Aaron Donald. If you want another name, Dontari Poe. 

The league is full of poster boys who can't play. Be willing to look at the ugly ones.

J

No, I’m interested in the appropriate value based on the spot where a player is drafted, and I don’t feel that any DE or DT in this draft is worth a top 32 selection. You’re the one trying to convince me otherwise. 

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

11 minutes ago, plan9misfit said:

No, I’m interested in the appropriate value based on the spot where a player is drafted, and I don’t feel that any DE or DT in this draft is worth a top 32 selection. You’re the one trying to convince me otherwise. 

Not a single one in the top-32? Not even Barmore or Ojulari? 

[onejayhawk]

18 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

Not a single one in the top-32? Not even Barmore or Ojulari? 

That's also my reaction. Imagine if the Cowboys pick was 20 slots lower.

Barmore I would put at the top of round #2, but Ojulari, Paye, and Phillips are legit 1st round picks. That does not touch on the ones who train up well, but aren't ready to step right in.

J

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

21 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

That's also my reaction. Imagine if the Cowboys pick was 20 slots lower.

Barmore I would put at the top of round #2, but Ojulari, Paye, and Phillips are legit 1st round picks. That does not touch on the ones who train up well, but aren't ready to step right in.

J

I think I'm kind of in the middle of you guys, but I would say I'm definitely closer to Plan9 on it. In general, I am really not a fan of this DL class.

I do think Ojulari > K'Lavon Chaisson last year. I could see ending up in a spot where I'd pick him for the Cowboys. 

But for Paye and Phillips, I'm not even close to valuing them where you would have to select them. Paye is a poor-man's Almost Anthony, and I'm just not messing with the head injury stuff on Phillips (though I agree, on the field, he is a clear 1st round talent).

The moral of the story here, is that I really don't think we should be forcing the issue on DL. Both need *and* value will likely make more sense for a different position until, at least, the 3rd round.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Nextyearfordaboyz

[plan9misfit]

1 hour ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

Not a single one in the top-32? Not even Barmore or Ojulari? 

To me, Ojulari is closer to a 1st round pick than Barmore is. You know that I’m a fan of Barmore, but I’ve been steadfast for months that he’s a second round pick who will be overdrafted.

[onejayhawk]

Ojulari is a straight up 1st rounder for a 3-4 team. I can see Dallas devaluing him because of the scheme, but even then he should be late 20s. Phillips injury is a valid concern. 

It's not so much that the DL class is weak, as it's not sexy and the IDL is weak. I would slot Onwuzurike over Barmore and put both in round #2. 

J

[WizardHawk]

15 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

Ojulari is a straight up 1st rounder for a 3-4 team. I can see Dallas devaluing him because of the scheme, but even then he should be late 20s. Phillips injury is a valid concern. 

It's not so much that the DL class is weak, as it's not sexy and the IDL is weak. I would slot Onwuzurike over Barmore and put both in round #2. 

J

I see Ojulari being in Quinn's wheelhouse. He's got an extensive history with smaller DEs in both Seattle and Atlanta.

[plan9misfit]

27 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

Ojulari is a straight up 1st rounder for a 3-4 team. I can see Dallas devaluing him because of the scheme, but even then he should be late 20s. Phillips injury is a valid concern. 

It's not so much that the DL class is weak, as it's not sexy and the IDL is weak. I would slot Onwuzurike over Barmore and put both in round #2. 

J

So, again, why force a 1st round pick on a defensive linemen when the value obviously isn’t there?

[Texas_OutLaw7]

39 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

Ojulari is a straight up 1st rounder for a 3-4 team. I can see Dallas devaluing him because of the scheme, but even then he should be late 20s. Phillips injury is a valid concern. 

It's not so much that the DL class is weak, as it's not sexy and the IDL is weak. I would slot Onwuzurike over Barmore and put both in round #2. 

J

I have no idea how to square the circle in which you live where Paye goes top 10 but Ojulari is a late 20 player.

We simply do not co-exist in the same draft logic.

I'll leave this thread with this last note: I hope you are right an Paye goes in the top 10; it would literally be one of the best possible outcomes for Dallas. 

[plan9misfit]

9 minutes ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said:

I have no idea how to square the circle in which you live where Paye goes top 10 but Ojulari is a late 20 player.

We simply do not co-exist in the same draft logic.

I'll leave this thread with this last note: I hope you are right an Paye goes in the top 10; it would literally be one of the best possible outcomes for Dallas. 

As long as Dallas isn’t the team drafting Paye.

[plan9misfit]

1 hour ago, onejayhawk said:

Ojulari is a straight up 1st rounder for a 3-4 team. I can see Dallas devaluing him because of the scheme, but even then he should be late 20s. Phillips injury is a valid concern. 

It's not so much that the DL class is weak, as it's not sexy and the IDL is weak. I would slot Onwuzurike over Barmore and put both in round #2. 

J

Let’s shift the narrative a bit. If Chicago wanted to trade up from 20, then I’d be happy to accept Khalil Mack as part of the compensation package. This way, DE is addressed.

Issue resolved.

[onejayhawk]

1 hour ago, plan9misfit said:

Let’s shift the narrative a bit. If Chicago wanted to trade up from 20, then I’d be happy to accept Khalil Mack as part of the compensation package. This way, DE is addressed. Issue resolved.

You would give #10 and what for Khalil Mack? 

 

1 hour ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said:

I have no idea how to square the circle in which you live where Paye goes top 10 but Ojulari is a late 20 player.

We simply do not co-exist in the same draft logic.

I'll leave this thread with this last note: I hope you are right an Paye goes in the top 10; it would literally be one of the best possible outcomes for Dallas. 

Paye is a better player than Ojulari, just not a better pass rusher. Lately, Paye has been down in the later teens, rather than top 10. 

J

[Texas_OutLaw7]

20 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

 

Paye is a better player than Ojulari, just not a better pass rusher. Lately, Paye has been down in the later teens, rather than top 10. 

J

You related to Paye? His agent? Because your desire to pimp him out to a forum that wants nothing to do with him is odd.

None of your stances make sense. 

But, for your sake I hope your team (Chief?) Trades up and takes Paye. Maybe at spot #9. 

[plan9misfit]

1 hour ago, onejayhawk said:

You would give #10 and what for Khalil Mack? 

 

Paye is a better player than Ojulari, just not a better pass rusher. Lately, Paye has been down in the later teens, rather than top 10. 

J

I think you’re misunderstanding. Chicago would give up #20, Khalil Mack, and maybe more for the #10 pick.

And, to claim that a DE who can’t rush the passer is a better player than a DE who does it moderately well, is laughable.