Chiefs trade for OT Orlando Brown

[onejayhawk]

3 minutes ago, nicfre2011 said:

I am talking about either letting him walk (unlikely) or re-signing him for $20+ APY.

I really do not see a long term commitment here. Besides, they have Niang, who has been quietly training for the job. He plays RT for a year and swings over next year. 

 

2 minutes ago, kempus said:

This is a superb deal for the Chiefs imo. Young, potentially elite LT of the future. This sets us up to win both now and longterm. Brown is a lot better than anyone that would be available at 31, imo. Cap shouldnt be a huge concern either, imo. Its likely to sky rocket in the next couple of seasons. If you have the opportunity to get a potentially elite LT, you do it. The compensation was minimal.

I don't see him as the future. This has a one-year-deal stamped in big letters on the package. We'll see if it works that way. 

J

[kempus]

Just now, onejayhawk said:

I really do not see a long term commitment here. Besides, they have Niang, who has been quietly training for the job. He plays RT for a year and swings over next year. 

 

I don't see him as the future. This has a one-year-deal stamped in big letters on the package. We'll see if it works that way. 

J

Potentially, but I see more chance that we extend him after the season. At worst, tag him for a season. We are clearly committed to protecting Pat at all costs, as we should be. Our O line is now a strength. 

[nicfre2011]

1 minute ago, onejayhawk said:

I really do not see a long term commitment here. Besides, they have Niang, who has been quietly training for the job. He plays RT for a year and swings over next year. 

 

I don't see him as the future. This has a one-year-deal stamped in big letters on the package. We'll see if it works that way. 

J

You see Brown as a 1 year rental? If that is the case, the trade will, IMO be a colossal failure. 

[kempus]

5 minutes ago, nicfre2011 said:

You see Brown as a 1 year rental? If that is the case, the trade will, IMO be a colossal failure. 

If we win a Superbowl, would it be? Brown is likely to be much better than any rookie starting at LT this season.

[kempus]

This trade also gives us a lot of flexibility in the draft. We dont have to draft a specific position now. Two seconds is a great asset too.

[onejayhawk]

4 minutes ago, nicfre2011 said:

You see Brown as a 1 year rental? If that is the case, the trade will, IMO be a colossal failure. 

It's the reason we got him so cheaply, what amounts to a mid-2nd rounder. I don't like it, but the Ravens were getting what they could for a guy who would not re-sign.

Realistically, I don't think we CAN re-sign him. Even if we tag him, he gets a massive raise. 

1 minute ago, kempus said:

This trade also gives us a lot of flexibility in the draft. We dont have to draft a specific position now. Two seconds is a great asset too.

Yes we do. DE is a gaping hole.

Potentially, we can move Chris Jones and/or Turk Wharton to DE for a substantial number of snaps, but we need more depth badly. 

J

[kempus]

8 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

It's the reason we got him so cheaply, what amounts to a mid-2nd rounder. I don't like it, but the Ravens were getting what they could for a guy who would not re-sign.

Realistically, I don't think we CAN re-sign him. Even if we tag him, he gets a massive raise. 

Yes we do. DE is a gaping hole.

Potentially, we can move Chris Jones and/or Turk Wharton to DE for a substantial number of snaps, but we need more depth badly. 

J

Now thats one hole instead of two though. With those 2 seconds, we still have flexibility to move up if there is an edge we love. If not, sit and see whats available. I feel much better about starting Brown at LT than a round 2 guy.

[Jakuvious]

I've taken some time to think before posting, on this one. I've been vocally against signing Brown from the outset. I am not, by any means, ecstatic about this move long term.

Two elements of this do make this a better move than what I feared originally. The compensation is dramatically better than what I expected. I thought #31 might not be enough on it's own. I didn't ever imagine we'd get a 2nd rounder back. That makes the trade dramatically better value than what I would've expected. I also like that we don't have an extension already set for him. A few people have complained about in the thread, and that complaint I absolutely do not understand. His cost is low, short term, and this gives us flexibility, long term. My concerns with getting Brown were never the cap or the loss of picks so much as the concern, as some have said, of another Frank Clark. Where we trade for, and instantly pay, what we believe will be top tier talent, but only get middling returns (well, most of the time.) This helps lower that possibility. If we pay Brown now, we would be paying high for a guy who hasn't been in our scheme, who is coming from a team who historically has departing free agents underperform elsewhere, and who has mostly played on the right side. Now, we get a year trial run, where he's better than any option we have now. Keeps our superbowl window alive, doesn't prohibit us from drafting a developmental OT, for the record, and doesn't lock us in to anything long term. I like the move far more with the condition of no long term deal yet.

[Jakuvious]

20 minutes ago, nicfre2011 said:

You see Brown as a 1 year rental? If that is the case, the trade will, IMO be a colossal failure. 

I disagree here substantially. I'm not going to say that's the plan, because I imagine the ideal scenario for the FO is he looks absolutely elite and we just get someone younger for what we wanted to pay Trent Williams earlier in the offseason. But if he was a good LT for one superbowl contending year, at the cost of mid-2nd round value, walked in free agency, and returned us a low-3rd round value (comp pick), I would absolutely be perfectly fine with that. Especially if we still take an OT somewhere in the draft this year, because that's still on the table, IMO.

[Jakuvious]

5 hours ago, kingseanjohn said:

1-2 years of success or a decade? I would absolutely be disappointed because it looks like we're on a path to waste the mid to late career of Mahomes.

If we bury ourselves in total cap hell, it does not take half a decade to climb back out of that. The Pats just did like a one year turnaround from league-leading dead money to league-leading cap space. You wouldn't, hypothetically, be wasting that much of anything. Year or two, max.

I'm not saying I entirely agree with the way we're going about things right now, But, your post makes it sound like we'd waste like 5 years of his career. And even the Saints haven't managed to achieve that level of cap hell.

[nicfre2011]

15 minutes ago, kempus said:

If we win a Superbowl, would it be? Brown is likely to be much better than any rookie starting at LT this season.

With Mahomes, we build a solid roster with adequate depth and we are in contention for the next decade. Strategic roster management long term gives us the best opportunity for sustained long term success.

[kempus]

2 minutes ago, nicfre2011 said:

With Mahomes, we build a solid roster with adequate depth and we are in contention for the next decade. Strategic roster management long term gives us the best opportunity for sustained long term success.

True, and having an elite LT should be at the absolute top of the list. The Chiefs just gave themselve a chance of having that. 

[Jakuvious]

2 hours ago, samsel23 said:

Possible,  it’s also a totally different scheme and defenses play our offense “slightly” different than Baltimore.  
 

Frank Clark was 25 when we traded for him and everyone was ecstatic we got a dominant edge for the future.   I think we know how well that turned out.  Again don’t hate the player...  this is a combined list of Veach moves that make me say he’s overrated by Chief fans.  

This is where, to me, the biggest difference is that we aren't paying Brown. At least not yet. Clark was traded to us on the franchise tag. We had to pay him $17M that year, or give him that big long term deal (and I imagine a trade was off the table if we wouldn't have given him that deal.)  Brown is one year earlier. We have this year to pay him on a rookie deal. We can see how he performs at LT, in our system, and what he's worth to us. If it doesn't pan out, we can jettison him next offseason and all we lost was about 1 round in pick value (going from the mid-2ndish we gave up, to the low third we could get in a comp pick.) Imagine if we had Clark making $3M in 2019, and after that year, we got to decide what to do with him. That would dramatically change the current outlook on Clark, because either we'd be paying him less or we'd have moved on, or he'd have produced better for us.

[nicfre2011]

1 minute ago, Jakuvious said:

This is where, to me, the biggest difference is that we aren't paying Brown. At least not yet. Clark was traded to us on the franchise tag. We had to pay him $17M that year, or give him that big long term deal (and I imagine a trade was off the table if we wouldn't have given him that deal.)  Brown is one year earlier. We have this year to pay him on a rookie deal. We can see how he performs at LT, in our system, and what he's worth to us. If it doesn't pan out, we can jettison him next offseason and all we lost was about 1 round in pick value (going from the mid-2ndish we gave up, to the low third we could get in a comp pick.) Imagine if we had Clark making $3M in 2019, and after that year, we got to decide what to do with him. That would dramatically change the current outlook on Clark, because either we'd be paying him less or we'd have moved on, or he'd have produced better for us.

Jak, I definitely want us to win the Super Bowl this year and win several more. I would love Brown to solve the only roadblock to a Super Bowl win. My only concern is that if we get caught in this "throw everything at what we perceive ad the biggest issue", we run the risk of missing the long term picture. I just don't think that trading picks for players that are on the brink of cashing in is a sustainable process long term.

[RedGold]

1 minute ago, nicfre2011 said:

Jak, I definitely want us to win the Super Bowl this year and win several more. I would love Brown to solve the only roadblock to a Super Bowl win. My only concern is that if we get caught in this "throw everything at what we perceive ad the biggest issue", we run the risk of missing the long term picture. I just don't think that trading picks for players that are on the brink of cashing in is a sustainable process long term.

This is my stance as well.  
 

I don’t want to come across as the sky as falling guy.  Not even close.    Aggressive moves can be a bad thing is all I’m saying.