Draft Week! Third Overall Pick - POLL

[Forge]

18 minutes ago, Uncle_Rico said:

I know you said you're a fan of Peters. Is that based on something specific?

Peters and the scouting department. flawed reasoning; just generalized...the deeper you get into drafts, the more reliant you are on the scouting department. The staff simply doesn't have the time and that's just a widely accepted truth. Could have been Mayhew, tbh, but I think he was more pro personnel. 

Peter's acumen has been well chronicled though. He's lauded for notable big hits. Chris Harris as a UDFA, Malik Jackson. He was supposedly the big push in denver for Von Miller. You look at our guys that have come up later. MY understanding is that for us he's been responsible for guys like Bourne. 

18 minutes ago, Uncle_Rico said:

Can't get behind the idea that a GM should be picking Shanahan's QB for him. QB is an extension of the Coach on the field and no one knows better what they need that person to be than Shanahan. 

 

If Shanahan's system requires a less talented player, I don't know what the hell his system is. 

18 minutes ago, Uncle_Rico said:

Also, seems like people are randomly assigning credit to Lynch/Peters/Shanahan from previous drafts. We don't know who has influenced what picks. Literally just guessing. 

 

Some of this has actually been documented though. 

[Uncle_Rico]

3 minutes ago, Ftn49 said:

I'm fine with the idea that Shanny gets to pick the qb. What I'm not ok with is that he gets carte blanche to pay whatever he wants for one. That should be the scouting department that sets the valuations.

100000% agree with this

I have no problem if they pick Mac Jones at 3. I have a big problem that they could have gotten him at 6 and saved a 1st and 3rd. Or gotten Stafford.

[big9erfan]

10 minutes ago, Forge said:

Nope. One thing matters. How Shanny feels. That's it. Nothing else matters. 

But he should care about a guy's character too. One false step in SF and he'll be hounded out whether Shanny wants to keep him or not. Also of course a guy's character helps to determine how hard he will work to improve, or take failure or criticism. and things like that.

Tell me honestly, do those pictures look like pictures of a guy that is doing everything he can to be the best physically that he can be?

[Forge]

1 minute ago, Uncle_Rico said:

100000% agree with this

I have no problem if they pick Mac Jones at 3. I have a big problem that they could have gotten him at 6 and saved a 1st and 3rd. Or gotten Stafford.

Yeah, the pick valuation part of this a whole different mess LOL. Agree with both you and @Ftn49 there. 

[SonsofFenris7]

1 minute ago, big9erfan said:

But he should care about a guy's character too. One false step in SF and he'll be hounded out whether Shanny wants to keep him or not. Also of course a guy's character helps to determine how hard he will work to improve, or take failure or criticism. and things like that.

Tell me honestly, do those pictures look like pictures of a guy that is doing everything he can to be the best physically that he can be?

he looked like he was so out  of shape and drinking alot when he had issues from drinking before

[big9erfan]

32 minutes ago, GW21 said:

That’s part of it though. Apparently Lynch called Shanny after he attended Mahomes pro day and said something along the lines of ‘We may want to rethink this, because this guy just put on a show’ an Shanny was so locked in on Cousins that they didn’t do it. Obviously we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes, but sometimes you have to pound the table to get someone to see something from a different perspective. I hope they’ve learned from that if Shanny is really locked into drafting Jones.

I wish things like this mattered, but Shanny wants who he wants. The second Jones pro day and the first Fields pro day were on tv at the same time. IF that sort of thing mattered than Fields would be the pick. There was no comparison. 

I saw a story yesterday that measured "air time" of these guys to receivers at various distances. That objective measure corresponded to what anyone's eyes could tell them from watching.  Jones velocity is a lot slower. The estimate was that on an intermediate route (I think that's what they looked at) the guy Jones was throwing to would need an extra yard to yard and a half over if Fields was throwing. He had that at Alabama. Going to be hard to get it routinely in the NFL.

[Forge]

12 minutes ago, Uncle_Rico said:

Wise choice. I'd pull the rug on Fields entirely and crank up that Mac percentage.

It's one of those things that's really hard to gauge. In a vacuum, everything he says pretty much screams Fields. But it is becoming more and more clear that Fields just isn't the guy. I think its very likely he ends up in New England. 

If you're really looking for a "starting quarterback", IE, this year...I don't know how Lance fits in there. I'm willing to do that, but two things...one, you're likely robbing your vets of this season. Thats just a high likelihood chance. But also, one of the reasons you sit him is so that you can get him into the habits you want to instill in him. With Lance specifically, that could mean mechanical tweaks. He's a blank canvas, which is nice...but he can still develop bad habits. That's the reason to sit him. I can't see us wanting a starter this year and taking Lance. 

The only thing that makes me hedge is that was a terrible trade for Teddy B and I can't imagine Jimmy's value is any better. I suppose it's realistically still possible that he's on the roster still. 

[big9erfan]

16 minutes ago, Uncle_Rico said:

Can't get behind the idea that a GM should be picking Shanahan's QB for him. QB is an extension of the Coach on the field and no one knows better what they need that person to be than Shanahan. 

Doesn't mean Lynch/Peters have no say. They have plenty of input but final call should ultimately be Kyle's.

Also, seems like people are randomly assigning credit to Lynch/Peters/Shanahan from previous drafts. We don't know who has influenced what picks. Literally just guessing. 

I know you said you're a fan of Peters. Is that based on something specific?

No one knows better what they need that person to be. But completely possible that someone else who is a better talent evaluator knows better who fits that need.

[N4L]

37 minutes ago, Forge said:

3 firsts and a 3rd, otherwise known as one "Mac Jones" . 

So maybe a Mac Jones + 2nd? 

Have I told you how much I hate you? 

[big9erfan]

9 minutes ago, Uncle_Rico said:

100000% agree with this

I have no problem if they pick Mac Jones at 3. I have a big problem that they could have gotten him at 6 and saved a 1st and 3rd. Or gotten Stafford.

This is essentially the issue I was raising a couple days ago when I asked who had final say-so on trades. When Shanny says "I want Jones" someone in the org, other than Shanny himself, ought to be responsible for determinig how much to pay for what he wants.

[Uncle_Rico]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

Peters and the scouting department. flawed reasoning; just generalized...the deeper you get into drafts, the more reliant you are on the scouting department. The staff simply doesn't have the time and that's just a widely accepted truth. Could have been Mayhew, tbh, but I think he was more pro personnel. 

Peter's acumen has been well chronicled though. People have called him a savant lol...he's lauded for notable big hits. Chris Harris as a UDFA, Malik Jackson. He was supposedly the big push in denver for Von Miller. You look at our guys that have come up later. MY understanding is that for us he's been responsible for guys like Bourne. 

If Shanahan's system requires a less talented player, I don't know what the hell his system is. 

Some of this has actually been documented though. 

Shanahan's system doesn't require less talent. What he's looking for is SPECIFIC talent which is why Mac Jones is going to be the pick. Mac's skill set is rare and it is being phased out of the game as premier athletes are starting to play QB at a young age instead of skill positions. But he wants someone that can execute all the plays and make all the throws, not take sacks and turn the ball over, but also push the ball down field. Mac is far from the sexy pick which is why people don't want him, but he's a very good football player. 

I'll read up on Peters but never think it's easy to assign credit in the personnel department at least from a fan perspective. I generally know personnel people are well thought of when they start getting GM interviews which I'm not sure if that's happened for Peters yet. Hopefully he's as great as you say and is able to convince Shanny of Lance.

[big9erfan]

10 minutes ago, SonsofFenris7 said:

he looked like he was so out  of shape and drinking alot when he had issues from drinking before

SO much nit picking on Fields. Has anyone taken a close look at how much Jones drinks? Only one DUI but does he still maybe have a problem. Not suggesting he does at all. Just pointing out how people are nit picking everything about Fields but nothing about Jones, at least as far as I know.

[N4L]

32 minutes ago, Uncle_Rico said:

No Niner fans I know were mad about passing on Mahomes at the time. But to your point I think so many teams whiffing on Mahomes/Watson/Josh Allen has made teams completely re-evaluate how they view QB prospects. 

This regime got the benefit of the doubt back then. I liked watson, but deferred to the highly knowledgeable coaching staff and front office. I figured that if we were passing, it must have meant that they knew things that I did not. Then we hear they didnt really even scout these guys. 

So no, passing on watson/mahomes at the time wasnt something I was upset with, but its totally fair to have these criticisms knowing what we know now about the process that they went through at that time coupled with results based hindsight 

 

[SonsofFenris7]

1 minute ago, big9erfan said:

SO much nit picking on Fields. Has anyone taken a close look at how much Jones drinks? Only one DUI but does he still maybe have a problem. Not suggesting he does at all. Just pointing out how people are nit picking everything about Fields but nothing about Jones, at least as far as I know.

they are doing it, so there teams can draft him

[big9erfan]

9 minutes ago, Forge said:

It's one of those things that's really hard to gauge. In a vacuum, everything he says pretty much screams Fields. But it is becoming more and more clear that Fields just isn't the guy. I think its very likely he ends up in New England. 

If you're really looking for a "starting quarterback", IE, this year...I don't know how Lance fits in there. I'm willing to do that, but two things...one, you're likely robbing your vets of this season. Thats just a high likelihood chance. But also, one of the reasons you sit him is so that you can get him into the habits you want to instill in him. With Lance specifically, that could mean mechanical tweaks. He's a blank canvas, which is nice...but he can still develop bad habits. That's the reason to sit him. I can't see us wanting a starter this year and taking Lance. 

The only thing that makes me hedge is that was a terrible trade for Teddy B and I can't imagine Jimmy's value is any better. I suppose it's realistically still possible that he's on the roster still. 

But who in their right mind would make a decision between guys as different as Jones, Fields and Lance based on who would be best if he had to start next year. That would be nuts given that we mortgaged our future for this pick.