broncos67 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 41 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: Ya, Trevor's play this past game was simply unacceptable. Even with our poor OL he was showing himself to simply not have what it takes to be a starting caliber QB. And I hate saying that because I really like the kid. I thought he was going to be a Hasselbeck type QB for a number of years, but he looks cooked. And while its tough to disparage a QB for being a tackling dummy because of how bad the OL is, the truly quality starting QB's find ways to make plays even with pressure. And Trevor cant do that. He has also been unable to push the ball down the field for 3 games now, which I truly don't understand because he looked fine in terms of arm strength in the first 2-3 games. He just has been poor, and likely isn't anything but a backup caliber guy moving forward. But, I would still stick with him as the starter over Brock. I still think there is more of a glimmer of potential in Trevor than Brock, and even if not I think Trevor has a better chance of being our long term backup QB solution than Brock, so I would stick with him. If Lynch, or even Kelly, are ready to go, then I would play them over Trevor just to see what we have. But not Brock. Stick with the guys who have a future here, and who might develop into something. That is Lynch, Kelly and Trevor, despite his recent dumpster fire play. Overall, I agree with the resounding sentiment that Elway needs to be held accountable for his inability to build an offense. He just doesn't know how to draft on that side of the ball. And his most recent draft overall has netted us ONE player worthy of snaps and one out of control punt returner. That's it. Demarcus Walker has been a total no-show (Not to mention we are foolishly trying to turn him into an EDGE, apparently Elway wants to relive the Robert Ayers at 34LB years). Henderson has been booty and doesn't understand a route tree. We got a developmental CB when tons of more NFL ready guys were on the board. Ugh. Also, I think its time for some De'Angelo Henderson. I understand that Booker looks good catching the ball, and maybe he can be a full time receiver, but he is still very slow hitting the hole and doesn't have any power through tackles. CJ is still our best option though, he put a respectable 4.4ypc on the board last night despite the OL being abused by SD's tremendous rush. In fact, Anderson has probably been our best offensive player this season. He always goes unnoticed for some reason. It may be time to go young and tank, but I don't want to waste this defense. A Tebow-era type reliance on the run game may be our best bet. We have a lot of warm bodies at RB, we might as well run them into the ground. More than anything, please people don't suggest tanking for Josh Allen. We don't need a third 'looks-like-Tarzan-plays-like-Jane' type pick at QB. The kid is terrible. Great post. Wouldn't be shocked to see us go after Josh Allen if for no other reason than because he plays at Wyoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 minute ago, broncos67 said: Great post. Wouldn't be shocked to see us go after Josh Allen if for no other reason than because he plays at Wyoming. stop stealing my twitter content Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bMiller031 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 This seems like a cross-road in the season. It seems like we have a few options: Roll with Trevor and the team that is currently configured (knowing that we'll be 3-6 by mid November) Make a trade to inject some life into this team (go trade an asset for an ILB or a veteran RT) and gun for a wild card spot. Tank for a 2018 draft pick. I'm interested to hear what y'all think. I simply can't imagine this quarterback and this offensive line going 3-0 on the road in the playoffs against teams like KC, New England, Pittsburgh, or Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLikeDefense Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Unfortunately even if we did tank, won't there be a few QB needy teams ahead of us like Cleveland, SF (I know they might get Cousins), NYJ, NYG, etc. So Josh Allen seems more than likely especially since he's got the measurable Elway likes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Isn't this years draft class supposed to be QB deep? Allen would be great..you know he can spin in it cold weather...and it is a short ride down I-25 to Denver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 Allen sucks at football tho You already know it's LAMAR JACKSON SZN BABY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 19 hours ago, broncos67 said: Give me a break with Sloter. Yeah, a nice developmental prospect. He would fare no better (and, in fact, much worse) than Siemian has. Time for Elway to re-evaluate the personnel guys. There is very little in the way of talent on this team. It's time to stop keying in on individual players in the draft and just take BPA. That concept appears foreign to Elway, but my god, this team, specifically on offense, is a total joke. I agree with this. While the buck does stop with Elway, guys like Russell, Heckert and all the scouts needs to be feeling the heat. I think a shake-up in the front office, as well as a change in their draft approach as you point out Ben, is necessary. Peyton Manning masked a lot of weaknesses with this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 19 hours ago, Orangecrush151 said: McCoy should be fired this offense has been predictable and garbage the whole aeason Wasn't this supposed to be the best offensive staff ever assembled? Look at the big names - McCoy, Musgrave, Davidson, Studesville. Wow. Yet they either can't put their ideas together, can't agree on an approach or, more likely as I said since it was leaked that Vance, if hired, was going to bring in Mike McCoy, he is the most overrated OC in the league. Because he put together a simplistic read-option offense with Tim Tebow and our defense and running game (we had a real offensive line then) and we snuck into the playoffs with 8 wins? I could coach a read-option offense, it's why high schools and lower-level college programs with athletes, rather than passers, at QB use them. The blame is shared between the coaching staff (poor preparation, poor game-plans, poor play-calling, no leadership) and the front office (mistakes in player personnel and coaching hires). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLikeDefense Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 27 minutes ago, champ11 said: Allen sucks at football tho You already know it's LAMAR JACKSON SZN BABY Oh, I agree but I am just sayin' Elway loves them tall athletic QBs. LJ has come down to earth this year so he shouldn't be a day 1 or maybe even day 2 pick. I'd take the flier on him that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 One interesting stat, and something about just how bad of a game plan our OC put together, we called 37 pass plays to only 17 runs. And it's not like the game got out of hand. It was 7-0 until 7 minutes in the 2nd quarter and 14-0 until 5 minutes in the 4th. They could have gone with a more balanced attack but that would take a competent coaching staff, which we clearly don't have. McCoy looks more and more like Josh McDaniels circa 2009-10 than even I had feared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 4 hours ago, broncos67 said: I was firmly on team Trevor to start the season, but it's evident we're going nowhere with him and it's time to cut bait. He's only one of the many problems on this team, but he's shook and it's plain as day. He's now imagining pressure that isn't there, holding the ball way too long waiting for DT to get open, and we're relying on him to pass his way out of trouble because the box is stacked. Elway needs to shoulder nearly all of the blame for this season, IMO. Now, I don't know if goofy Vance and McCoy are the right coaches, but if we're being completely fair, this season isn't a good representation of what they can or can't do. We have a ton of injuries, and the talent our GM has brought in is hot garbage. The defense is still playing at an extremely high level, but my god, Elway has been just terrible building an offense that didn't include Peyton Manning. He's now gone 0-2 in identifying QBs, and both he has brought in have been tall, athletic types with big arms but little between the ears. Not a recipe for success in today's NFL. What's worse, we have spent premium draft picks on both. Bolles will be serviceable long-term, IMO. He'll likely never be an elite OT, but at least he'll be passable. The rest of the line sans Leary is a mess. Paradis looks worse. Garcia is an absolute dumpster fire. We have a set of turnstiles at RT. That's on Elway for the failure to draft/develop/sign any identifiable talent over a long period of time. This years draft is following the pattern of other drafts. Bolles plays, but isn't great. Where is Demarcus Walker? Carlos Henderson got hurt. Jake Butt was hurt. We drafted a developmental CB from Lamar instead of a number of prospects who are contributing across the league. Sure would be nice to have Tarik Cohen on this team instead. Oh, and let's not forget the doubling up on players in an effort to find our version of Tyreek Hill. Elway is just trying to emulate success instead of having the forethought to amass talent and build a cohesive team. His strategy isn't going to work. Excellent post. Couldn't have said it better myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Re: the QBs. I think they're going to give Trevor one more shot. If he craps the bed again on Monday in KC then they're going to have to make a chance or things are going to approach 2010-level ugly with this fan base. Whether it's Brock or Paxton who gets the first shot is anyone's guess. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing either of them. We know what we have in Trevor - a good guy who is a model backup - but certainly not a franchise QB or the long term answer. I suppose if he's healthy I'd slightly perfer to see Paxton but, truth to be told, I actually think Brock would be the better option. But with us going to KC, then to Philly and then hosting New England, we have a real chance at looking at a five-game skid. That not only will take the playoffs off the table but it could force Elway to make major changes, not just to player personnel but hopefully with the coaching staff and front office as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLikeDefense Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Re: the QBs. I think they're going to give Trevor one more shot. If he craps the bed again on Monday in KC then they're going to have to make a chance or things are going to approach 2010-level ugly with this fan base. Whether it's Brock or Paxton who gets the first shot is anyone's guess. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing either of them. We know what we have in Trevor - a good guy who is a model backup - but certainly not a franchise QB or the long term answer. I suppose if he's healthy I'd slightly perfer to see Paxton but, truth to be told, I actually think Brock would be the better option. But with us going to KC, then to Philly and then hosting New England, we have a real chance at looking at a five-game skid. That not only will take the playoffs off the table but it could force Elway to make major changes, not just to player personnel but hopefully with the coaching staff and front office as well. 100% agree with this post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 My tuppence worth - last week I said that there was blame to go around - this week is more of the same - Olivo - and for those who objected to my criticism of Olivo last week, this week he carries the can for the TD on the punt return. McCoy - any idiot would know that Siemian is not going to be able to pass his way to a comeback. Better to put 8 along the line and just pound the ball - if nothing else it will wear the defence out. Seimian - like some others I was onboard with him starting - but he is done and we are going to see more scorelines like last night if he is sitting in the pocket with McCoy getting him to throw. The OL - is worse than brutal (I will come back to this) Woods - was the rebound by the defence down to Woods or the fact that we have talent there But I am going to reserve my biggest criticism for Elway - who potentially is throwing away a championship winning opportunity by a combination of penny pinching and wasting money. Strike 1 against Elway - Starting with the OL - Elway wasted $2.750million keeping Stephenson around - the guy should not be in the NFL - and he is going to cost $1million in dead cap money next year when he is cut - this is all down to Elway.. Elway signed Watson for $3.27million - but that is not the worst - his second year cap hit is $7.5million and is going to cost us $2.66million in dead cap when he is cut. That combined is a waste of $6million this year and will cost a further $3.66million next year - $10million on two players that should not be on any roster never mind the Broncos. And the reason why Garcia is still playing, he costs $656K - I think Barbre gets an extra $300K if he hits a certain number of snaps (and yes I am that cynical). And just to be clear - this is more money than the extra cap hit of contracts next year that has Elway engaging in penny-pinching. Strike 2 against Elway - not giving Anderson a second round tender last year and costing the team another $6.5million. Strike 3 against Elway - you draft for depth and expect draft picks to contribute when necessary - Elway is now drafting by rolling the dice on players who will not provide depth, will not contribute and may - at some stage in the distant future - contribute something. Bolles is the only player from this year's draft that has contributed anything - and we all know he was a reach for need. 2015 draft we got Ray and little else. 2014 draft - Roby and Paradis and nothing else. We have nothing from the 2013 draft - Wolfe from 2012 draft and Von from 2011. The 2016 draft might turn out to be good but the depth that is needed to build a successful roster through the draft is not there and has not been there since Elway became GM. This brings me to - Strike 4 against Elway - not sacking Russell - he has done nothing to assist building the roster - if anything he has gone out of his way to make sure the roster is undermined. Elway should have sacked him when he cleared out the rest of the McDaniels sidekicks - and at the very least he should have been gone after it became public knowledge that the personnel meetings were booze-ups. Strike 5 against Elway - hiring Russell's frat buddy as HC. If this is article is anyway accurate Elway has dug a deep hole for himself with Vance Joseph. http://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/22/vance-joseph-in-denial-broncos-mark-kiszla/ Elway has done some good things as GM - but it is has been far more negative than positive over the last two years - he has serious talent on defence but has done zero to put a offence on the field, picking up scrubs from other teams, paying way to much money to these scrubs and digging a big hole that the defence, no matter how good, could dig the team out of. I am always an optimist when it comes to the Broncos - through thick and thin - but the last few weeks would shake anyone's confidence that Elway knows what he is doing - maybe he is believing hype that he is some GM guru who can do no wrong. As AAA said - the buck stops with him - and while blame also resides elsewhere - Elway gets paid to fix the problems and get it right. (as an aside - I would actually give Kubiak even more credit for winning that SB after seeing how things have panned out since). So - what next - well the time of trying to patch things up are gone - Elway has penny-pinched and has grossly and badly overspent on need. We need a RT and a LG - proper ones - and then we need a QB (and I think this will be the biggest issue to address) - much as I think Lynch is a bust, throw him in there and lets see how bad he really is. This defence still has a couple of years of greatness - but if it keeps having to look at the ineptitude on the offensive side of the ball then our best players will start looking for pastures greener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I don't think Elway is as bad as putting a roster together as some think. And I don't think he is as good as Manning made him look. Facts are these types of things are what happens when your face of the .franchise retires. You regress significantly. And we didn't have the luxury of a top pick to land a Luck, Watson, Wentz. These are just facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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