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2021 Broncos Draft Thread


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9 minutes ago, grizmo78 said:

Mannerisms and relative style, I can see it. But comparing anyone who isn't an athletic marvel to Champ is setting them up for disappointment. Champ ran a 4.28 40, and had a 3.79 second shuttle at the combine. That's INSANE and what really helped Champ be the HOF corner he was. Not to say PS2 wont/cant be great, but that's an extremely high bar. 

Build wise, you can see the comp.  But it's just so hard to match what Champ brought.

Surtain could be 4.40, his shuttle 4.00-ish (and most aren't) and his 3-cone sub-7 and it wouldn't touch what Champ brought.     Champ's the Metcalf/Julio of CB's when it came to physical talent - add in his intangibles, well, there's only one Champ.

None of the above is a knock against Surtain - he could be as good as Marshawn Lattimore, for example, and it would be a good result.  It still wouldn't be Champ V2.

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14 minutes ago, grizmo78 said:

Mannerisms and relative style, I can see it. But comparing anyone who isn't an athletic marvel to Champ is setting them up for disappointment. Champ ran a 4.28 40, and had a 3.79 second shuttle at the combine. That's INSANE and what really helped Champ be the HOF corner he was. Not to say PS2 wont/cant be great, but that's an extremely high bar. 

I think where I see it is how he runs. He is extremely smooth just like Champ was. 

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12 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Build wise, you can see the comp.  But it's just so hard to match what Champ brought.

Surtain could be 4.40, his shuttle 4.00-ish (and most aren't) and his 3-cone sub-7 and it wouldn't touch what Champ brought.     Champ's the Metcalf/Julio of CB's when it came to physical talent - add in his intangibles, well, there's only one Champ.

None of the above is a knock against Surtain - he could be as good as Marshawn Lattimore, for example, and it would be a good result.  It still wouldn't be Champ V2.

I like Xavien Howard as a good ceiling comp for him. 

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25 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

I think where I see it is how he runs. He is extremely smooth just like Champ was. 

Yeah I’m excited about Surtain but Champ is one of the 3 greatest Broncos defensive players in team history (alongside Gradishar and Von) and was a first-ballot hall of famer. Let’s not get too ahead of ourselves here. 

Because he was only part of one elite team (2005) Champ doesn’t get, IMO, the love he deserves from Broncos Country at large but he was a very, very special player and there was not a single flaw in his game, he was elite at everything a CB can do. When we played the Pats during Champ’s prime, Belichick would just cede half the field to him; saying, in effect, “okay, you have that, we’re not going there.” And the one time he did go there, Champ had a 100-yard interception return. 

Edited by AnAngryAmerican
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Ya, Champ was in a class of his own. You dont find many players at any position that have 11/10 football athleticism, 11/10 football IQ, 11/10 personal character and 11/10 work ethic. He was a beast. 

Howard is a much more realistic comparison, and he is elite. 

Edited by BroncosFan2010
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1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Yeah I’m excited about Surtain but Champ is one of the 3 greatest Broncos defensive players in team history (alongside Gradishar and Von) and was a first-ballot hall of famer. Let’s not get too ahead of ourselves here. 

Because he was only part of one elite team (2005) Champ doesn’t get, IMO, the love he deserves from Broncos Country at large but he was a very, very special player and there was not a single flaw in his game, he was elite at everything a CB can do. When we played the Pats during Champ’s prime, Belichick would just cede half the field to him; saying, in effect, “okay, you have that, we’re not going there.” And the one time he did go there, Champ had a 100-yard interception return. 

Oh I know trust me Champ was/is my favorite athlete of all time. I have like 3 jerseys haha

I was just talking about his play style. Every analyst said that they found it hard to find a comp for him but just watching his highlights and the way he moves with his long arms and smooth transitions turning and running with the WR reminds me of how Champ played.

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37 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Ya, Champ was in a class of his own. You dont find many players at any position that have 11/10 football athleticism, 11/10 football IQ, 11/10 personal character and 11/10 work ethic. He was a beast. 

Howard is a much more realistic comparison, and he is elite. 

11/10 tackling, 11/10 instincts....

You name it, he could do it.

It always vexed me when John Madden, even towards the end of his career, was saying the Redskins got the better end of the trade; they got Portis, we got Champ and a pick that turned into Tatum Bell who damn near ran down 1,000 yards in the same season (2005) Mike Anderson ran for over 1,500 (Shanahan was incredible). But Madden - who is a NFL legend and I loved listening to him call games - couldn’t ever fully shed his Broncos hate. 

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31 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

11/10 tackling, 11/10 instincts....

You name it, he could do it.

It always vexed me when John Madden, even towards the end of his career, was saying the Redskins got the better end of the trade; they got Portis, we got Champ and a pick that turned into Tatum Bell who damn near ran down 1,000 yards in the same season (2005) Mike Anderson ran for over 1,500 (Shanahan was incredible). But Madden - who is a NFL legend and I loved listening to him call games - couldn’t ever fully shed his Broncos hate. 

After the Packers beat the 49ers in the 97 NFC Title Game, Madden didn't seem to give Denver any chance. He was basically saying that the Pack would win pretty easily. I think that is when the initial odds came out (that had GB favored by 13 or something. I couldn't believe that).

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You can find really good corners who are fast and smooth, like PS2. You can find really good corners who are quick and twitchy, like Tre’Davious White. But guys that are somehow both of those things, like Champ...that’s when you’ve got a Mount Rushmore level DB. 
 

I agree that in off coverage, or when they’re at full speed, PS2 can look an awful lot like Champ. But the separator is in press off the line, where Champ was literally lightning, and I think PS2 isn’t at a special level. 

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Champ was so good, man. I think people are actually wrong when they talk about his technique being textbook - it was probably the opposite. 

That sideways running style with him peeking the QB was just crazy. To not backpedal square to your WR relies on 99th percentile athleticism; safe to say Champ had that.

Simply amazing player.

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3 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Champ was so good, man. I think people are actually wrong when they talk about his technique being textbook - it was probably the opposite. 

That sideways running style with him peeking the QB was just crazy. To not backpedal square to your WR relies on 99th percentile athleticism; safe to say Champ had that.

Simply amazing player.

You could remove the jerseys/numbers from him and still be able to tell Champ from any other corner. The way he moved was just different

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On 5/6/2021 at 11:14 PM, broncosfan_101 said:

You can find really good corners who are fast and smooth, like PS2. You can find really good corners who are quick and twitchy, like Tre’Davious White. But guys that are somehow both of those things, like Champ...that’s when you’ve got a Mount Rushmore level DB. 
 

I agree that in off coverage, or when they’re at full speed, PS2 can look an awful lot like Champ. But the separator is in press off the line, where Champ was literally lightning, and I think PS2 isn’t at a special level. 

I think PS2 could be at a special level.  But he won't be at Champ level.  If we get 74.3% of Champ level play that would be a worthwhile player.  

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15 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Champ was so good, man. I think people are actually wrong when they talk about his technique being textbook - it was probably the opposite. 

That sideways running style with him peeking the QB was just crazy. To not backpedal square to your WR relies on 99th percentile athleticism; safe to say Champ had that.

Simply amazing player.

Yep. I remember lots of fierce debate on here once upon a time as to whether Champ was better than Nnamdi Asomugha. Still find that laughable. Champ was one of a kind. Wish he could've gotten that ring.

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On 5/6/2021 at 1:00 PM, AnAngryAmerican said:

Yeah I’m excited about Surtain but Champ is one of the 3 greatest Broncos defensive players in team history (alongside Gradishar and Von) and was a first-ballot hall of famer. Let’s not get too ahead of ourselves here. 

Because he was only part of one elite team (2005) Champ doesn’t get, IMO, the love he deserves from Broncos Country at large but he was a very, very special player and there was not a single flaw in his game, he was elite at everything a CB can do. When we played the Pats during Champ’s prime, Belichick would just cede half the field to him; saying, in effect, “okay, you have that, we’re not going there.” And the one time he did go there, Champ had a 100-yard interception return. 

I’d put Atwater over Gradishar ;)

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2005-06 Champ is the best peak I’ve ever seen from a corner. I think the injuries in 2007 and 2008 along with age chipped away at the elite athleticism but he still put together another excellent four year run of being one of the best corners in football. That kind of post-peak stretch of greatness as the athleticism declines is really rare.

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