15th Overall Pick the New England Patriots Select - Mac Jones - QB - Alabama

[DoleINGout]

1 minute ago, The Third Rider said:

Mac did have value, the 49ers did trade up to get him but had a change of heart. Regarding the race issue, I will just say that the Patriots have started both Jacoby Brissett and Cam Newton over other QBs in the roster. I don't think race was ultimately a defining factor on it (I can't speak for the rest of the NFL though). To me it just seemed like Bill lacked urgency, he was happy waiting and getting whomever was available in the 15 pick. While I agree that picking more guys in the draft will yield better results I also believe that talent has a massive weight on how good you will ultimately be. The mantra of getting multiple B level players over a single A player has left the Patriots devoid of talent over the last few years.

Agreed that Belichick/Pats decision makers lacked urgency. Mac Jones was in free fall already from #3 to the Niners who changed their mind on him. The Pats settled on Jones because he was there. The race thing is more about other teams picking at the very top of the draft specifically as it related to Fields but even after the top 3 picks this year, I don't discount it by any NFL team.

[Deadpulse]

14 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

To move from 15 to 11 would not require a future 1st. If that were the case, then yes, it probably isn't worth it.

That is literally what happened. The Giants sent out just the 11th pick, worth 1,250 points. The Bears traded the 20th pick (850 points) and 164th pick (26 points). They also traded their 2022 first-round pick (value anywhere from 590 to 6,000 points) and 2022 fourth-round pick (Value: 45-116). There is no way we beat out this value, even with 15 instead of 20, without a 1st rounder included for next year. 

[DoleINGout]

47 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

That is literally what happened. The Giants sent out just the 11th pick, worth 1,250 points. The Bears traded the 20th pick (850 points) and 164th pick (26 points). They also traded their 2022 first-round pick (value anywhere from 590 to 6,000 points) and 2022 fourth-round pick (Value: 45-116). There is no way we beat out this value, even with 15 instead of 20, without a 1st rounder included for next year. 

The trade chart point system isn't in use anymore from what I understand, the values change. But if we are going off that as some sort of measuring stick, then moving down from 11 to 20 is a lot further than moving down four from 11 to 15. Regardless, giving up 15 and a 32 on this outdated chart system to go up to 11 isn't typically worth it - but for Fields, I believe it is. Of course, deciding not to ultimately do that is understandable as well. But to go ahead and take Jones at 15 and say he is basically the same value as Fields is as much a reach as taking a second round QB prospect in the mid-1st.

Edited May 12, 2021 by DoleINGout

[Deadpulse]

5 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

The trade chart point system isn't in use anymore from what I understand, the values change. But if we are going off that as some sort of measuring stick, then moving down from 11 to 20 is a lot further than moving down four from 11 to 15. Regardless, giving up 15 and a 32 on this outdated chart system to go up to 11 isn't typically worth it - but for Fields, I believe it is. Of course, deciding not to ultimately do that is understandable as well. But to go ahead and take Jones at 15 and say he is basically the same value as Fields is as much a reach as taking a second round QB prospect in the mid-1st.

so now it is worth it to used two firsts to get to 11?

[DoleINGout]

49 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

so now it is worth it to used two firsts to get to 11?

I think Mahomes is worth two firsts. Fields has a ceiling that is worth two firsts eventually. So in essence a team like the Bears can justify the trade. From 15 to 11 the cost isn't that much I don't believe, so it isn't really a question. It didn't happen for the price, (11+future top 32), nor should it.

[Apparition]

4 hours ago, The Third Rider said:

Mac did have value, the 49ers did trade up to get him but had a change of heart. 

There is a lot more evidence against this than there is for it. 

[The Third Rider]

3 minutes ago, Starless said:

There is a lot more evidence against this than there is for it. 

It's a whole lot of he said she said, reports were that he and Trey were being considered. Joel Klatt also heard that the move was for Jones. Truth is we will never know, all we have is speculation.

 

[Apparition]

Ultimately this comes down to one question:

Would you rather have Mac Jones AND Christian Barmore, or Justin Fields?

As much as I liked the Barmore pick, I would much rather have had Fields.

[The Third Rider]

Quaterbacks run this league, you are in one of two camps; you either have an elite QB or you don't. With that said, I've made my stance that I wanted Fields and I am ready to crucify Bill if Fields turns into anything remotely close to Mahomes and Jones is just Kirk Kousins 2.0. However, I have moved on from my ideal of what our roster should have been and ready to see what it will actually become. I also find it ironic that Jones (in this forum at least) has to live up to what Fields will become and not to his predecessor, Tom Brady, to which he is more comparable to. I am ready to see what Jones can do, I just hope that Bill gives him all the tools he needs to be successful. 

[DoleINGout]

Who can live up to Tom Brady though.

[Deadpulse]

1 minute ago, DoleINGout said:

Who can live up to Tom Brady though.

Minshew's stache alone maybe

[DoleINGout]

Just now, Deadpulse said:

Minshew's stache alone maybe

I stand corrected.

[Hunter2_1]

10 hours ago, Starless said:

Ultimately this comes down to one question:

Would you rather have Mac Jones AND Christian Barmore, or Justin Fields?

As much as I liked the Barmore pick, I would much rather have had Fields.

Other way for me, I think the overall value out-weighs just getting Fields, even though Fields is the better QB.

 

I worry for him though, in Chicago. He'd have had a better career here, there's no doubt in my mind

[IheartMyV8]

I have no idea what to expect but I'm excited to see it regardless.

[SBLIII]

13 hours ago, The Third Rider said:

Quaterbacks run this league, you are in one of two camps; you either have an elite QB or you don't. With that said, I've made my stance that I wanted Fields and I am ready to crucify Bill if Fields turns into anything remotely close to Mahomes and Jones is just Kirk Kousins 2.0. However, I have moved on from my ideal of what our roster should have been and ready to see what it will actually become. I also find it ironic that Jones (in this forum at least) has to live up to what Fields will become and not to his predecessor, Tom Brady, to which he is more comparable to. I am ready to see what Jones can do, I just hope that Bill gives him all the tools he needs to be successful. 

It will be hard to say either way. If Mac turns out to be more successful, people will still say Fields got drafted into a bad situation in Chicago and still would have done better in NE.

And if you think he needs to be comparable to Brady, he has already lost in your eyes.