BayRaider Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, CaliforniaKid7 said: Gladly revisit this. You said book it that he'll be a G by year two so I'm excited to see that play out! Been wanting to ask this for a while. What makes you so confident in your evaluation of offensive lineman? Whats your scouting background? What "film" do you watch? Do you have a write up on Leatherwood or any write ups from previous drafts and the OL that got picked? I personally don't know much about OL in general so I'd love to learn more and you seem to have it all figured out.Ā And why would Mike and Jon deserve the benefit of the doubt?Ā Have any of Mayock and Grudens massive reaches worked out yet? Nope. Miller was a projected firstĀ round pick and was a minor 8 pick reach.Ā However, Ferrell, Arnette, and Abram were all big time reaches and have all failed so far.Ā At least Leatherwood has a floor of a solid guard to fall back on I suppose.Ā Edited April 30, 2021 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Iām not saying heās not athletic. Heās not as athletic as his numbers indicate.Ā He looks very athletic on tape. My issues with him areĀ foot work and hand placement. Honestly he seems like he has the same positive the negatives as Kolton Miller when he came out except he's not 6'8. My whole thing is if he is the pickĀ they're just better not be any excuses about anything: No "I shouldn't have madeĀ himĀ transition in a Covid yearĀ thats hard" No "it's asking a lot to be a right tackle in the AFC West" No "we're going to have Denzel good play right tackle until he's ready" Ā He better be ready to start week one is right tackle. If he is and plays well I have no problem with the pick. But as you say, if he ends up being a guard and Darisaw ends up being a pro bowler its gonna snow.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Turnobili said: Wonder where Ferrell was lol #4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Just now, BayRaider said: And why would Mike and Jon deserve the benefit of the doubt?Ā Have any of Mayock and Grudens massive reaches worked out yet? Nope. Miller was a projected firstĀ round pick and was a minor 8 pick reach However, Ferrell, Arnette, and Abram were all big time reaches and have all failed so far.Ā At least Leatherwood has a floor of a solid guard to fall back on I suppose.Ā There were a lot of people that saw Kolton Miller as a topic in the second round. It was considered crazy when we picked him to at 15 back in 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaKid7 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Ā 1 minute ago, BayRaider said: And why would Mike and Jon deserve the benefit of the doubt?Ā Have any of Mayock and Grudens massive reaches worked out yet? Nope. Miller was a projected firstĀ round pick and was a minor 8 pick reach However, Ferrell, Arnette, and Abram were all big time reaches and have all failed so far.Ā At least Leatherwood has a floor of a solid guard to fall back on I suppose.Ā How does this address my questions? I'm curious on your past credibility with OL scouting as you seem incredibly confident in your eval of both Leatherwood and Darrisaw.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) finding myself envious of Cleveland's front office. drafted Denzel Ward in the first round of 2018. Drafted Greedy Williams in the 2nd round of 2019.Ā Grant Delpit in the 2nd of 2020. went out and signed James Johnson and Troy Hill during this offseason. still came back and drafted Greg Newsome in the first round this year. continue pouring resources into the secondary position groups that require more depth than any other position. that team has been managed remarkably well in recent years, considering the low point they were at in 2017, and how Baker has been good not great for a #1 overall pick. they still have their misses (Njoku/Hooper... OBJ trade), but that roster is noticeably improving by the year. Edited April 30, 2021 by Turnobili Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said: There were a lot of people that saw Kolton Miller as a topic in the second round. It was considered crazy when we picked him to at 15 back in 2018 He was universally ranked around 27th/28th. Not much of a reach. Leatherwood was universally ranked 50th - 60th.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Just now, BayRaider said: He was universally ranked around 27th/28th. Not much of a reach. Leatherwood was universally ranked 50th - 60th.Ā The problem with that term universally is the universally supposedly JOK was widely considered one of the top defensive players in the entire draft and 32 teams passedĀ on him. Ojulari too. We can't do the universally thing anymore lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, BayRaider said: He was universally ranked around 27th/28th. Not much of a reach. Leatherwood was universally ranked 50th - 60th.Ā if anybody comes back with "who cares what media guys say that aren't actual scouts or execs" just remind them what Mayock's credentials were before landing the GM gig 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, CaliforniaKid7 said: Ā How does this address my questions? I'm curious on your past credibility with OL scouting as you seem incredibly confident in your eval of both Leatherwood and Darrisaw.Ā Iām saying whileĀ I have no credentials, Jon and Mike have not earned the benefit of the doubt as all of the reaches they have made have turned out horribly.Ā Ā I also hate this argument. Whenever someone is getting annoyed in an argument on the internet, āhey whats your credentials?ā, an instant lazy defense to the people they are defending. So you are basically saying Jon and Mike are not open toĀ criticism? Every single time they make a horrendous pick, default to ālet it play it outā ? Weāve already let it play out multiple times and it hasnāt worked.Ā Edited April 30, 2021 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Turnobili said: if anybody comes back with "who cares what media guys say that aren't actual scouts or execs" just remind them what Mayock's credentials were before landing the GM gig Lmao, good point. Mayock has no background, just a media guy. His credentials arenāt any better than fans.Ā Edited April 30, 2021 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaKid7 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 1 minute ago, BayRaider said: Iām saying why I have no credentials, Jon and Mike have not earned the benefit of the doubt as all of the reaches they have made have turned out horribly.Ā Ā I also hate this argument. Whenever someone is getting annoyed in an argument on the internet, āhey whats your credentials?ā, an instant lazy defense to the people they are defending. So you are basically saying Jon and Mike are not open tk criticism? Every single time they make a horrendous pick, default to ālet it play it outā ? Weāve already let it play out multiple times and it hasnāt worked.Ā Criticism is much different than what you tend to do which is speak in absolutes and guarantees. You speak as if what you say is gospel and definitely going to happen. So my thought process is wow someone who speaks that confidently about something must know alot/have some great experience or credentials in that specific area. Is that not the case? What's lazy is armchair scouts thinking that watching a YT cut up of an offensive lineman with no actual knowledge of the technique/scheme and then spout that nonsense off as their own knowledge.Ā Ā So just to confirm...you have no experience scouting OL? Or football in general? No history of correct scouting/projection of OL in the past? Just checking.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 The only way we can right this wrong is taking Spencer Brown in the 3rd. Like how we did with Ferrell at #4 and Crosby in the 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, Turnobili said: finding myself envious of Cleveland's front office. drafted Denzel Ward in the first round of 2018. Drafted Greedy Williams in the 2nd round of 2019.Ā Grant Delpit in the 2nd of 2020. went out and signed James Johnson and Troy Hill during this offseason. still came back and drafted Greg Newsome in the first round this year. continue pouring resources into the secondary position groups that require more depth than any other position. that team has been managed remarkably well in recent years, considering the low point they were at in 2017, and how Baker has been good not great for a #1 overall pick. they still have their misses (Njoku/Hooper... OBJ trade), but that roster is noticeably improving by the year. Cleveland has built themselves a monster. They are stacked top to bottom.Ā Ā If only we had people in our Front Office like them who know what they are doing.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 1 minute ago, CaliforniaKid7 said: Criticism is much different than what you tend to do which is speak in absolutes and guarantees. You speak as if what you say is gospel and definitely going to happen. So my thought process is wow someone who speaks that confidently about something must know alot/have some great experience or credentials in that specific area. Is that not the case? What's lazy is armchair scouts thinking that watching a YT cut up of an offensive lineman with no actual knowledge of the technique/scheme and then spout that nonsense off as their own knowledge.Ā Ā So just to confirm...you have no experience scouting OL? Or football in general? No history of correct scouting/projection of OL in the past? Just checking.Ā Iām not speaking in absolutes or guarantees. Leatherwood is likely to be a Guard after one or two seasons. Thatās a General Consensus, actually, and in most draft writeups. I donāt think I ever used the term guarantee either. I also said he can play RT, but he would be Average or Below-Average and leave way too much to be desired to stay there Long-Term.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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