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🏈 Pick #17 is in: OL, Alex Leatherwood, Alabama


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4 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

Tom Cable did well with Kolton Miller. he also had us trade up to take Brandon Parker with the fist pick of the 3rd round. that's not a throwaway pick. Cable has a long NFL track record of mediocre results. i'm pretty sure there was a collective moan among raider fans when he was announced to come back. doing well with 1 draft pick doesn't suddenly make me think he's Scarnecchia 

Here's a thing I actually understand your perspective. The key difference is that Alex Leatherwood was a first round pick in the sense that cable could've picked any tackle not named Sewell or Slater and picked this guy. That's much different than a third round pick where you're thinking maybe this guy has a little bit of potential that I can mold. 

I did ask myself that same thing though concerning Brandon Parker

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

seems to defeat the purpose of posting on a message board. aren't we here to share opinions? otherwise we could all just read the news and never comment on it

Of course. Definitive conclusions though. And the purpose of a message board is discussion. Saying this is how it is, period doesn't lead to any discussion except the crap this forum has become.

Edited by oakdb36
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1 minute ago, BayRaider said:

Acceptance is difference from justification. They try to make themselves think it was an ok pick. Like believing these reports someone would of picked him in the 1st Round. 

hahah i guess. 

But what is it called in psychology, when someone believes their point of view is the only possible truth? and that any report that comes out is just a lie, or fake news? 

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2 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

hahah i guess. 

But what is it called in psychology, when someone believes their point of view is the only possible truth? and that any report that comes out is just a lie, or fake news? 

I’m all about evidence. The Raiders haven’t shown the contrary that these weren’t in fact full round reaches, they have all been quite bad in the NFL so far. They have a track record we can base it on. 

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Just now, BayRaider said:

I’m all about evidence. The Raiders haven’t shown the contrary that these weren’t in fact full round reaches, they have all been quite bad in the NFL so far. 

well there are reporters who are posting about other teams being interested in Leatherwood, but you are saying that is Fake news, because everyone loves Gruden and Mayock, so they will risk their reputation to help out their friends. 

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1 minute ago, BayRaider said:

I’m all about evidence. The Raiders haven’t shown the contrary that these weren’t in fact full round reaches, they have all been quite bad in the NFL so far. 

 Now this is valid. I understand that take for sure.

But for me I chalk up all of the reaches to having Paul Gunther wanting those picks specifically(Like he mentioned with Clelin Ferrell)

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

well there are reporters who are posting about other teams being interested in Leatherwood, but you are saying that is Fake news, because everyone loves Gruden and Mayock, so they will risk their reputation to help out their friends. 

Reporters lie alllllll the time bro. Actually, most of the time. They help out Front Offices. I said multiple times that the 49ers are selecting Trey Lance at #3 as soon as the trade was made. That they never considered Mac Jones for one second. Obvious beyond words that every SF Beat Writer, was lying through their teeth for them. Nate Silver “I haven’t talked to Kyle” LOL, I laughed as soon as I heard him say that. As for Main Stream Media, they’ll just echo whatever the Beat Writers say. 

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Just now, BayRaider said:

Reporters lie alllllll the time bro. Actually, most of the time. They help out Front Offices. I said multiple times that the 49ers are selecting Trey Lance at #3 as soon as the pick was made. That they never considered Mac Jones for one second. Obvious beyond words that every SF Beat Writer, was lying through their teeth for them. Nate Silver “I haven’t talked to Kyle” LOL, I laughed as soon as I heard him say that. As for Main Stream Media, they’ll just echo whatever the Beat Writers say. 

haha listen I understand that. the entire draft is a smokescreen. 

but youre getting closer to my point;
teams lie to the media to get their guys to fall, ALA 9ers taking Mac Jones, so no one tries to jump in front of them. 

maybe teams lie to the media about their Oline rankings, then the media gets hyped about those prospects, so that the player the team wants is still there? 

Or can teams only lie to media about QBs or skill position players?
 

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10 minutes ago, Geezy said:

im just waiting for some analysis on what makes Leatherwood a bad pick. 

because there were other players widely considered to be superior prospects available. the most clean one would be christian darrisaw. beyond that, there are arguments for and against Teven Jenkins, and other tackles who went in the second round like Cosmi (who actually compares quite well with Miller). 

the main issue with Leatherwood is that he played through his senior year and still showed regular flaws, doesnt have a great punch in pass pro sets. normally you worry about that less with underclassmen, and you bank on the fact that they're still early in their development. not as much the case with more or less "finished products" who have played as many games as Leatherwood.

he's also not quite as athletic as guys like Kolton Miller or Sam Cosmi. he did test well in certain metrics like his broad jump, but those aren't really the "athletic" indicators for Tackles, where you are more so looking for quick reactions/directional changes in response to moves put on my rushers. 

so he's a good not great athlete for the position, while also still having some noticeable (though potentially fixable) flaws despite what looks like a ton of experience. doesnt mean he's undraftable. just makes him questionable at #17 overall

Edited by Turnobili
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Like, all you had to do was watch Mac Jones play and realize there is zero chance he’s going #3 overall. He’s a 2nd Round QB at best, and even the Pats over drafted him at 15. 
 

Trey Lance literally has Mahomes/Allen superstar potential and fits Shanahan like a glove. 

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Duke Williams also said Leatherwood was going round 1 per league sources. Williams is super in touch with OL around the league. It seems like leatherwood was going rd 1. No way he was a full round reach.

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3 minutes ago, Geezy said:

im just waiting for some analysis on what makes Leatherwood a bad pick. 

As a player, I'm just not seeing a top-level right tackle prospect worth the 17th overall pick--especially when other players (at both tackle and other positions) were available at 17. It was basically a dream scenario for the Raiders and they botched it just like they did with Ferrell.

Leatherwood is highly refined, I do not see much more room for improvement besides NFL strength training (which he basically got at Alabama). Athletically, the pro day numbers do not match up what I saw. He has a stiff lower body and he's doing to struggle with pass rushers have a two-way go. He also doesn't have strong or heavy hands. Ojulari was able to swipe his hands right off of him. Perhaps worst off all is I've seen him pancaked more than once on a bullrush. Bullrushes in colleege don't happen that often but they do in the NFL--it's probably the best pass rush move in today's quick-passing NFL. I have seen Leatherwood pancaked twice (once against a linebacker). Lastly, his senior bowl performance was woeful, and highlighted all the issues I wrote about above.

I really believe if he didn't wear that Crimson lid, he wouldn't have touched the first two rounds. He has that Alabama sheen that makes people believe he's better than he is. This look like a mid first round pick to you? 

 

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13 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

For those who know more about the other T's that were available at our pick like Darrisaw, how does Leatherwood compare to them in the run game?

Leatherwood is good run blocking vs lb’s dbs whoever is in the second level.    He can lock onto dt’s and win 60% of the time. Just looks real raw esp vs dline with technique. 

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6 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

because there were other players widely considered to be superior prospects available. the most clean one would be christian darrisaw. beyond that, there are arguments for and against Teven Jenkins, and other tackles who went in the second round like Cosmi (who actually compares quite well with Miller). 

the main issue with Leatherwood is that he played through his senior year and still showed regular flaws, doesnt have a great punch in pass pro sets. normally you worry about that less with underclassmen, and you bank on the fact that they're still early in their development. not as much the case with more or less "finished products" who have played as many games as Leatherwood.

he's also not quite as athletic as guys like Kolton Miller or Sam Cosmi. he did test well in certain metrics like his broad jump, but those aren't really the "athletic" indicators for Tackles, where you are more so looking for quick reactions/directional changes in response to moves put on my rushers. 

so he's a good not great athlete for the position, while also still having some noticeable (though potentially fixable) flaws despite what looks like a ton of experience. doesnt mean he's undraftable. just makes him questionable at #17 overall

Not to mention we’re expecting him to play a position he’s never played before vs some of the best guys in the world. He’s like Jack of all trades master of none.

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pretty much, I was upset with this pick because it was a RT, I wanted D. 
We went D with every other pick except for the 7th, and still got the guy i wanted in the 1st, so in the end it worked out. 

I am far from a scout, and even further from an Oline scout, lol. I am sure, just like other positions, teams lie to the media and reporters about who they want to push their targets down the board. 
Again, I am not an oline scout, so if I see a reporter after the draft say other teams were interested, it could be true it could be false. I dont know. 
You seem to know way more about Alex then I do, so if he busts, Ill def give you props. But if he does well, ill remind you of it :). 
To sit here and say he was a massive reach when 4 OTs were taken before our 2nd pick, shows that he likely wouldnt have been available at our 2nd IMO. 

All i know is, I would have taken Moehrig at 17, who was viewed by at least some NFL gms as the 2nd or 3rd best safety in the class. 

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