Round 1: Pick #29; Eric Stokes, CB, Georgia

[Joe]

15 hours ago, deathstar said:

Think we will emphasize match coverage more:

https://www.patspulpit.com/2019/3/4/18234062/film-room-pattern-match-zone-rip-liz-cover-3-match-mable-nick-saban-cleveland-browns

That also explains the Shemar Jean-Charles pick due to Jean-Charles' tendency to get extremely physical in man as does Stokes. It might result in flags, but if they get into the receiver's head...

[Leader]

2 hours ago, Joe said:

That also explains the Shemar Jean-Charles pick due to Jean-Charles' tendency to get extremely physical in man as does Stokes. It might result in flags, but if they get into the receiver's head...

Or if the refs are swallowing their flags..................

Physical pays off in the big games IMO.

[Joe]

4 minutes ago, Leader said:

Or if the refs are swallowing their flags..................

Physical pays off in the big games IMO.

unless it's toward the end of a close game and you're playing Brady...

[Leader]

3 minutes ago, Joe said:

unless it's toward the end of a close game and you're playing Brady...

That was too obvious to ignore IMO. King was beat...by 1.5-2 steps at least IMO....and he reached out to grab/slow the guy down. Thats not gonna cut it.

They'll give you physical play....if your IN the play. King wasnt.

[Joe]

4 minutes ago, Leader said:

That was too obvious to ignore IMO. King was beat...by 1.5-2 steps at least IMO....and he reached out to grab/slow the guy down. Thats not gonna cut it.

They'll give you physical play....if your IN the play. King wasnt.

You must've forgot everything that happened before that and King really didn't so much to slow down a receiver that was overthrown. It was a tick-tack call that should've never decided the game because we would've had it won had Pettine taken the last 15 seconds of the first half seriously and not have dialed up an idiotic coverage scheme.

[Leader]

Just now, Joe said:

You must've forgot everything that happened before that and King really didn't so much to slow down a receiver that was overthrown. It was a tick-tack call that should've never decided the game because we would've had it won had Pettine taken the last 15 seconds of the first half seriously and not have dialed up an idiotic coverage scheme.

Not sure the relevance....but yes, King had a bad day. Accounted for two TDs to the bad guys and the dagger play. Not a game he'll be telling the Grandkids about.

[Joe]

1 hour ago, Leader said:

Not sure the relevance....but yes, King had a bad day. Accounted for two TDs to the bad guys and the dagger play. Not a game he'll be telling the Grandkids about.

There were several incidents earlier in the day where Packers WR's were flat out mugged and the refs didn't throw the flag. Surely, you have to remember the MVS incident when his jersey was literally ripped back and no flag. A flag would've resulted in a crucial first down the Packers needed.

[Leader]

15 minutes ago, Joe said:

There were several incidents earlier in the day where Packers WR's were flat out mugged and the refs didn't throw the flag. Surely, you have to remember the MVS incident when his jersey was literally ripped back and no flag. A flag would've resulted in a crucial first down the Packers needed.

I'm not interested in reliving the past. Certainly I remember the game...the entire game...hence my comment that in the big games, the refs will let the play go on....BUT....the dagger play involving King was to blatant to ignore IMO.  Done. I've no need to re-dissect the NFCCG or somehow make events then have relevance to the drafting of Stokes.

[incognito_man]

On 5/8/2021 at 7:49 PM, Leader said:

I'm not interested in reliving the past.

You're literally the one who brought up the past in this thread lol

[Leader]

8 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

You're literally the one who brought up the past in this thread lol

? Nope.

[craig]

On 5/7/2021 at 7:54 AM, cannondale said:

I think if Stokes can learn ...

A hard thing for me is to project how well a player can learn and improve.  Some guys, regardless of reputation pre-draft, get better/smarter/more-instinctive in time.  Others don't improve that much. 

I don't know how scouts anticipate that, exactly.  You'd think being smart/good-student/committed/hard-worker would contribute, although it often doesn't work out that way  Packers emphasized qualities like that for each of first four, Stokes very much so.  So I'm really hoping they got it right, and that Stokes will get smarter and get better as a player.  

Speed has been praised, otherwise stuff in thread has generally seemed negative.  Tackling has been presented negatively; read and recognition skills haven't been praised; hands said to be terrible; flexibility to play inside dismissed as nonexistent; hips kinda stiff; COD not too hot.   

Perhaps the Packers overrated his tape; or perhaps the board under-appreciates his tape; or else perhaps the Packers recognize the same flaws in tape past, but believe he'll be able to fix some of them and find workarounds for other in future.  

[gopackgo972]

1 minute ago, craig said:

A hard thing for me is to project how well a player can learn and improve.  Some guys, regardless of reputation pre-draft, get better/smarter/more-instinctive in time.  Others don't improve that much. 

I don't know how scouts anticipate that, exactly.  You'd think being smart/good-student/committed/hard-worker would contribute, although it often doesn't work out that way  Packers emphasized qualities like that for each of first four, Stokes very much so.  So I'm really hoping they got it right, and that Stokes will get smarter and get better as a player.  

Speed has been praised, otherwise stuff in thread has generally seemed negative.  Tackling has been presented negatively; read and recognition skills haven't been praised; hands said to be terrible; flexibility to play inside dismissed as nonexistent; hips kinda stiff; COD not too hot.   

Perhaps the Packers overrated his tape; or perhaps the board under-appreciates his tape; or else perhaps the Packers recognize the same flaws in tape past, but believe he'll be able to fix some of them and find workarounds for other in future.  

His flaws are things you can fix. Much like fixing a QB with mechanical issues. I like the pick but he won’t be an instant impact player.  

[deathstar]

2 hours ago, gopackgo972 said:

His flaws are things you can fix. Much like fixing a QB with mechanical issues. I like the pick but he won’t be an instant impact player.  

He’s immediately on the field 50-60% of the time in nickel/dime.

[craig]

11 hours ago, gopackgo972 said:

His flaws are things you can fix. Much like fixing a QB with mechanical issues. I like the pick but he won’t be an instant impact player.  

I think that's got to be how the Packers are seeing it, yes. 

I don't imagine that something like "tight hips" are super fixable, although I imagine to some degree biomechanics analysis can perhaps design a workup plan to modulate that limitation, even if only to a modest degree. 

I think usually terrible hands is a flaw that can't be remediated much.  Still, opportunities for interceptions are very rare, and even guys with great hands don't catch many.  Jaire has 4 INT in 3 years, so INT opportunities are VERY small-sample size.  So not sure how much the Packers did or should worry about that, relative to the actual ability to cover people on 30+ passing plays per game.  

I also wonder whether the Packers don't have ALL of the tape for Stokes' college career?  Perhaps within those views they've already seen progression, such that in film from his most recent play he's already attenuated some of the flaws that were more noticeable in earlier film?

[deathstar]

2 hours ago, craig said:

I think that's got to be how the Packers are seeing it, yes. 

I don't imagine that something like "tight hips" are super fixable, although I imagine to some degree biomechanics analysis can perhaps design a workup plan to modulate that limitation, even if only to a modest degree. 

I think usually terrible hands is a flaw that can't be remediated much.  Still, opportunities for interceptions are very rare, and even guys with great hands don't catch many.  Jaire has 4 INT in 3 years, so INT opportunities are VERY small-sample size.  So not sure how much the Packers did or should worry about that, relative to the actual ability to cover people on 30+ passing plays per game.  

I also wonder whether the Packers don't have ALL of the tape for Stokes' college career?  Perhaps within those views they've already seen progression, such that in film from his most recent play he's already attenuated some of the flaws that were more noticeable in earlier film?

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/04/23/eric-stokes-potential-nfl-draft-steal-hiding-plain-sight
 

Despite having spent just five years at the position, Stokes’s technique has refined to match his athletic skill, separating him from prospects who may look more like an Al Davis fever dream with immense bust potential. He picked off four passes in nine games in the shortened 2020 season. According to Sports Info Solutions, Stokes allowed an opposing quarterback completion rate of 38% in 2020. In the SEC.