Joe Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 23 hours ago, craig said: Healthy Stokes obviously has catchup-speed, and explosive acceleration to get to it, that King didn't have the Sunday. Josh Jackson didn't either. I wonder how much King's inability to flip and run was just King, versus King-playing-hurt? Will Stokes play up to his timed speed though? That's a question scouts have posed. That said, in regards to King, the concern scouts and coaches had on him is that his legs got tangled up a lot while changing direction at Washington. We tend to forget that King is 6' 3" so his legs getting caught up in each other has more to do with his physical body, rather than an injury(which could complicate the measure) or poor technique(JMO). Personally, I thought Pettine routinely put King in a position to fail. @MrBobGray hit the nail on the head with his analysis of the coverage scheme, which provides me with my point on the matter. As a result, I can't get as mad at King as others have knowing it wasn't entirely his fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Joe said: Will Stokes play up to his timed speed though? That's a question scouts have posed. That said, in regards to King, the concern scouts and coaches had on him is that his legs got tangled up a lot while changing direction at Washington. We tend to forget that King is 6' 3" so his legs getting caught up in each other has more to do with his physical body, rather than an injury(which could complicate the measure) or poor technique(JMO). Personally, I thought Pettine routinely put King in a position to fail. @MrBobGray hit the nail on the head with his analysis of the coverage scheme, which provides me with my point on the matter. As a result, I can't get as mad at King as others have knowing it wasn't entirely his fault. Couldn't agree more with the bold. 2020 Mike Pettine is an absolutely baffling case study in how quickly a good coach can go wrong. This secondary screamed Cover-1 press -> Cover-3 on paper, every snap you could get away with it, and they ran it infrequently at most. I have no idea how Mike P defended the number of times he had Jaire defending nothing but air while King was asked to close and make the tackle on an athlete in the flat. King attempted 67 tackles in 11 games - Jaire attempted 56 in 15. I get that Jaire wasn't challenged much, but that's not a good thing if offenses are just finding soft match-ups elsewhere. This is the best secondary the Packers have had since 2010; why are you calling cloud coverages designed to limit their individual impacts? Edited May 20, 2021 by MrBobGray 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Punting Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 26 minutes ago, MrBobGray said: I have no idea how Mike P defended the number of times he had Jaire defending nothing but air while King was asked to close and make the tackle on an athlete in the flat. King attempted 67 tackles in 11 games - Jaire attempted 56 in 15. I get that Jaire wasn't challenged much, but that's not a good thing if offenses are just finding soft match-ups elsewhere. According to PFR, Alexander got targeted more frequently than King. According to PFF, their targets/gm were identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 51 minutes ago, MrBobGray said: Couldn't agree more with the bold. 2020 Mike Pettine is an absolutely baffling case study in how quickly a good coach can go wrong. This secondary screamed Cover-1 press -> Cover-3 on paper, every snap you could get away with it, and they ran it infrequently at most. I have no idea how Mike P defended the number of times he had Jaire defending nothing but air while King was asked to close and make the tackle on an athlete in the flat. King attempted 67 tackles in 11 games - Jaire attempted 56 in 15. I get that Jaire wasn't challenged much, but that's not a good thing if offenses are just finding soft match-ups elsewhere. This is the best secondary the Packers have had since 2010; why are you calling cloud coverages designed to limit their individual impacts? Not sure why I quoted you but I'd be shocked if King doesn't have a career year. It seems crazy obvious that it's coming. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 28 minutes ago, Les Punting said: According to PFR, Alexander got targeted more frequently than King. According to PFF, their targets/gm were identical. If you're playing hook/flat, they aren't going to give you a target when they throw it to the flat and make you come up and tackle. King had 57 tackles + 12 misses (69 total) on 36 completions while Jaire had 51 tackles + 5 misses (56) on 41 completions - King either attempted or made the tackle on 33 more plays than he allowed a catch, Jaire's at 15. That's 1 per game for Jaire vs 3 per game for King. The difference there is how often teams tested King's ability to come up and make the play. For reference, King attempted more tackles per game than Jaire, Savage, Amos and Sullivan; he was third on the team behind Kirksey and Barnes for all positions. If your 6'3" cover CB with shoulder issues is being asked to tackle just slightly less than your starting middle LB, you may not be calling a great defense. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Norm said: Not sure why I quoted you but I'd be shocked if King doesn't have a career year. It seems crazy obvious that it's coming. Norm, get out of the bar now ... you've had to many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 2 hours ago, MrBobGray said: If you're playing hook/flat, they aren't going to give you a target when they throw it to the flat and make you come up and tackle. King had 57 tackles + 12 misses (69 total) on 36 completions while Jaire had 51 tackles + 5 misses (56) on 41 completions - King either attempted or made the tackle on 33 more plays than he allowed a catch, Jaire's at 15. That's 1 per game for Jaire vs 3 per game for King. The difference there is how often teams tested King's ability to come up and make the play. For reference, King attempted more tackles per game than Jaire, Savage, Amos and Sullivan; he was third on the team behind Kirksey and Barnes for all positions. If your 6'3" cover CB with shoulder issues is being asked to tackle just slightly less than your starting middle LB, you may not be calling a great defense. Is it maybe because they know he was the weak link and going after him passing and running? It only makes sense to do so; he was the weak link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isherwood Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 12 hours ago, Norm said: Not sure why I quoted you but I'd be shocked if King doesn't have a career year. It seems crazy obvious that it's coming. Then light up a cigar, because we’re winning the super bowl if that happens 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 11 hours ago, coachbuns said: Norm, get out of the bar now ... you've had to many. I hadn't even started yet actually. I still hold on to this. It's going to happen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Isherwood said: Then light up a cigar, because we’re winning the super bowl if that happens And I died on the hill that was labeled, "This is Jamal Reynolds breakout year." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 14 hours ago, coachbuns said: Is it maybe because they know he was the weak link and going after him passing and running? It only makes sense to do so; he was the weak link. In 2019 when Pettine actually played King in coverage, he allowed a lower passer rating against than Jaire did. Did that make Jaire the weak link in 2019 then? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 1 hour ago, MrBobGray said: In 2019 when Pettine actually played King in coverage, he allowed a lower passer rating against than Jaire did. Did that make Jaire the weak link in 2019 then? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 18 hours ago, MrBobGray said: If you're playing hook/flat, they aren't going to give you a target when they throw it to the flat and make you come up and tackle. King had 57 tackles + 12 misses (69 total) on 36 completions while Jaire had 51 tackles + 5 misses (56) on 41 completions - King either attempted or made the tackle on 33 more plays than he allowed a catch, Jaire's at 15. That's 1 per game for Jaire vs 3 per game for King. The difference there is how often teams tested King's ability to come up and make the play. For reference, King attempted more tackles per game than Jaire, Savage, Amos and Sullivan; he was third on the team behind Kirksey and Barnes for all positions. If your 6'3" cover CB with shoulder issues is being asked to tackle just slightly less than your starting middle LB, you may not be calling a great defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 4 hours ago, MrBobGray said: In 2019 when Pettine actually played King in coverage, he allowed a lower passer rating against than Jaire did. Did that make Jaire the weak link in 2019 then? You like him ... I don't. 2020 is what counted most and he failed. Actually hope he plays as well this year as you hope; not holding my breath though. Pettine should have been gone long ago for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 21 hours ago, coachbuns said: You like him ... I don't. 2020 is what counted most and he failed. Actually hope he plays as well this year as you hope; not holding my breath though. Pettine should have been gone long ago for sure. Dude was here three seasons, you think we should’ve fired him after 2018? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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