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Round 1: Pick #29; Eric Stokes, CB, Georgia


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23 hours ago, craig said:

Healthy Stokes obviously has catchup-speed, and explosive acceleration to get to it, that King didn't have the Sunday.  Josh Jackson didn't either. 

I wonder how much King's inability to flip and run was just King, versus King-playing-hurt? 

Will Stokes play up to his timed speed though? That's a question scouts have posed.

 

That said, in regards to King, the concern scouts and coaches had on him is that his legs got tangled up a lot while changing direction at Washington. We tend to forget that King is 6' 3" so his legs getting caught up in each other has more to do with his physical body, rather than an injury(which could complicate the measure) or poor technique(JMO). 

Personally, I thought Pettine routinely put King in a position to fail. @MrBobGray hit the nail on the head with his analysis of the coverage scheme, which provides me with my point on the matter. As a result, I can't get as mad at King as others have knowing it wasn't entirely his fault.

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6 hours ago, Joe said:

Will Stokes play up to his timed speed though? That's a question scouts have posed.

 

That said, in regards to King, the concern scouts and coaches had on him is that his legs got tangled up a lot while changing direction at Washington. We tend to forget that King is 6' 3" so his legs getting caught up in each other has more to do with his physical body, rather than an injury(which could complicate the measure) or poor technique(JMO). 

Personally, I thought Pettine routinely put King in a position to fail. @MrBobGray hit the nail on the head with his analysis of the coverage scheme, which provides me with my point on the matter. As a result, I can't get as mad at King as others have knowing it wasn't entirely his fault.

Couldn't agree more with the bold.  2020 Mike Pettine is an absolutely baffling case study in how quickly a good coach can go wrong.  This secondary screamed Cover-1 press -> Cover-3 on paper, every snap you could get away with it, and they ran it infrequently at most.  I have no idea how Mike P defended the number of times he had Jaire defending nothing but air while King was asked to close and make the tackle on an athlete in the flat.  King attempted 67 tackles in 11 games - Jaire attempted 56 in 15.  I get that Jaire wasn't challenged much, but that's not a good thing if offenses are just finding soft match-ups elsewhere.  This is the best secondary the Packers have had since 2010; why are you calling cloud coverages designed to limit their individual impacts?

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26 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

I have no idea how Mike P defended the number of times he had Jaire defending nothing but air while King was asked to close and make the tackle on an athlete in the flat.  King attempted 67 tackles in 11 games - Jaire attempted 56 in 15.  I get that Jaire wasn't challenged much, but that's not a good thing if offenses are just finding soft match-ups elsewhere.  

According to PFR, Alexander got targeted more frequently than King. According to PFF, their targets/gm were identical.   

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51 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

Couldn't agree more with the bold.  2020 Mike Pettine is an absolutely baffling case study in how quickly a good coach can go wrong.  This secondary screamed Cover-1 press -> Cover-3 on paper, every snap you could get away with it, and they ran it infrequently at most.  I have no idea how Mike P defended the number of times he had Jaire defending nothing but air while King was asked to close and make the tackle on an athlete in the flat.  King attempted 67 tackles in 11 games - Jaire attempted 56 in 15.  I get that Jaire wasn't challenged much, but that's not a good thing if offenses are just finding soft match-ups elsewhere.  This is the best secondary the Packers have had since 2010; why are you calling cloud coverages designed to limit their individual impacts?

Not sure why I quoted you but I'd be shocked if King doesn't have a career year. It seems crazy obvious that it's coming. 

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28 minutes ago, Les Punting said:

According to PFR, Alexander got targeted more frequently than King. According to PFF, their targets/gm were identical.   

If you're playing hook/flat, they aren't going to give you a target when they throw it to the flat and make you come up and tackle.  King had 57 tackles + 12 misses (69 total) on 36 completions while Jaire had 51 tackles + 5 misses (56) on 41 completions - King either attempted or made the tackle on 33 more plays than he allowed a catch, Jaire's at 15.  That's 1 per game for Jaire vs 3 per game for King.  The difference there is how often teams tested King's ability to come up and make the play.  For reference, King attempted more tackles per game than Jaire, Savage, Amos and Sullivan; he was third on the team behind Kirksey and Barnes for all positions.  If your 6'3" cover CB with shoulder issues is being asked to tackle just slightly less than your starting middle LB, you may not be calling a great defense.

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2 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

If you're playing hook/flat, they aren't going to give you a target when they throw it to the flat and make you come up and tackle.  King had 57 tackles + 12 misses (69 total) on 36 completions while Jaire had 51 tackles + 5 misses (56) on 41 completions - King either attempted or made the tackle on 33 more plays than he allowed a catch, Jaire's at 15.  That's 1 per game for Jaire vs 3 per game for King.  The difference there is how often teams tested King's ability to come up and make the play.  For reference, King attempted more tackles per game than Jaire, Savage, Amos and Sullivan; he was third on the team behind Kirksey and Barnes for all positions.  If your 6'3" cover CB with shoulder issues is being asked to tackle just slightly less than your starting middle LB, you may not be calling a great defense.

Is it maybe because they know he was the weak link and going after him passing and running?  It only makes sense to do so; he was the weak link.  

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12 hours ago, Norm said:

Not sure why I quoted you but I'd be shocked if King doesn't have a career year. It seems crazy obvious that it's coming. 

Then light up a cigar,  because we’re winning the super bowl if that happens  

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14 hours ago, coachbuns said:

Is it maybe because they know he was the weak link and going after him passing and running?  It only makes sense to do so; he was the weak link.  

In 2019 when Pettine actually played King in coverage, he allowed a lower passer rating against than Jaire did.  Did that make Jaire the weak link in 2019 then?  

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18 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

If you're playing hook/flat, they aren't going to give you a target when they throw it to the flat and make you come up and tackle.  King had 57 tackles + 12 misses (69 total) on 36 completions while Jaire had 51 tackles + 5 misses (56) on 41 completions - King either attempted or made the tackle on 33 more plays than he allowed a catch, Jaire's at 15.  That's 1 per game for Jaire vs 3 per game for King.  The difference there is how often teams tested King's ability to come up and make the play.  For reference, King attempted more tackles per game than Jaire, Savage, Amos and Sullivan; he was third on the team behind Kirksey and Barnes for all positions.  If your 6'3" cover CB with shoulder issues is being asked to tackle just slightly less than your starting middle LB, you may not be calling a great defense.

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4 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

In 2019 when Pettine actually played King in coverage, he allowed a lower passer rating against than Jaire did.  Did that make Jaire the weak link in 2019 then?  

You like him ... I don't.  2020 is what counted most and he failed.  Actually hope he plays as well this year as you hope; not holding my breath though.  Pettine should have been gone long ago for sure.

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21 hours ago, coachbuns said:

You like him ... I don't.  2020 is what counted most and he failed.  Actually hope he plays as well this year as you hope; not holding my breath though.  Pettine should have been gone long ago for sure.

Dude was here three seasons, you think we should’ve fired him after 2018?

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