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Kizer Calls a Players Mtg; But will we see progress...


Mind Character

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A little strange that a players only meeting leaks to the public with tons of quotes from the player that called the meeting and others. But Kizer's young and his leadership is also young so beggars can't be choosers....it's probably a positive step forward albeit a small one. Maybe next time they'll learn to keep such things in house.

It could be somewhat meaningful especially if the players buy in to his leadership and he shouldered appropriate blame for his mistakes. If we can win and progress meetings like this can provide the positive momentum to build on. It can also improve player accountability and communication if the meeting was sincere.

However, if we continue to unravel, no improvement is made, and/or Kizer/the offense regress the meeting ultimately will be hollow.

Kizer will throw INTs this sunday but I hope he can avoid critical redzone mistakes and most importantly I hope the team can be galvanized and at least stay in the game, compete, and fight tooth and nail (wow that is a really weird idiomatic phrase) to the very end.

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2 hours ago, Mind Character said:

and/or Kizer/the offense regress

Regress to what? There are two games this year that I can guarantee that I would have had a higher rating than Kizer and I wouldn't have taken a sack. I'd take the snap and throw the ball into the ground. 0-30 passing and a higher rating than Kizer had against the Jets in his last time out and a higher rating than he had against the Ravens. Kizer can't regress, there is nowhere further to go than worst by a large margin in the NFL this year. A rating in the 40s. Sure he is only hitting on half of his passes but his 1-3 TD to INT ratio makes up for it. Lowest rated QB on short and deep passes. What is he regressing to? A caveman?

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21 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Regress to what? There are two games this year that I can guarantee that I would have had a higher rating than Kizer and I wouldn't have taken a sack. I'd take the snap and throw the ball into the ground. 0-30 passing and a higher rating than Kizer had against the Jets in his last time out and a higher rating than he had against the Ravens. Kizer can't regress, there is nowhere further to go than worst by a large margin in the NFL this year. A rating in the 40s. Sure he is only hitting on half of his passes but his 1-3 TD to INT ratio makes up for it. Lowest rated QB on short and deep passes. What is he regressing to? A caveman?

LOL...

Trust me it can...haha

you must not remember Stafford's rookie season where he had 4 INTs and I think 2 Fumbles in one game. I was living in Detroit at the time watching the game at a bar where everyone was saying this will be the worst game he'll ever play in his career and how a QB couldn't play any worse.....

...a few weeks later he threw 5 INTs and had a fumble and could've thrown more INTs....

Point is it can get worse....and it actually might...

So far Kizer looks a lot like rookie Stafford to me given that he has flashes albeit not too many as of recent interspersed with some of the worst INTs and turnover you'll see.

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53 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

LOL...

Trust me it can...haha

you must not remember Stafford's rookie season where he had 4 INTs and I think 2 Fumbles in one game. I was living in Detroit at the time watching the game at a bar where everyone was saying this will be the worst game he'll ever play in his career and how a QB couldn't play any worse.....

...a few weeks later he threw 5 INTs and had a fumble and could've thrown more INTs....

Point is it can get worse....and it actually might...

So far Kizer looks a lot like rookie Stafford to me given that he has flashes albeit not too many as of recent interspersed with some of the worst INTs and turnover you'll see.

Yeah Stafford sucked as a rookie. Even in those two terrible games that you mentioned he went for 3 TD and 9 INT. Sound familiar? That is what Kizer has done total. I'm not saying that Kizer can't turn into a Stafford, his long term ability is completely up in the air. His 2017 ability needs to improve quickly though if he wants to remain the starter. There comes a point where there is no longer a point.

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5 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah Stafford sucked as a rookie. Even in those two terrible games that you mentioned he went for 3 TD and 9 INT. Sound familiar? That is what Kizer has done total. I'm not saying that Kizer can't turn into a Stafford, his long term ability is completely up in the air. His 2017 ability needs to improve quickly though if he wants to remain the starter. There comes a point where there is no longer a point.

First five games stafford 3TDs; 7 INTs....Kizer 3TDs; 9 INTs...but can't recall if Stafford's INTs were all on him but I certainly know at least 2 INTs of Kizer were on Britt.

So, that's a point and we shall see if it holds true over time or if indeed there comes a point where there is no longer a point.

And...all of Stafford's stats were with Calvin Johnson on the squad.

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I think the worst part for Kizer is that he has britt, who has been awful. We are better without him and I hope he is our number 7 WR. We have been better without him. 

he is also missing Corey coleman, who is a top 10 player on the team in term of importance. If Kizer can play average i think we can looks forward to Colemans return. 

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4 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

First five games stafford 3TDs; 7 INTs....Kizer 3TDs; 9 INTs...but can't recall if Stafford's INTs were all on him but I certainly know at least 2 INTs of Kizer were on Britt.

So, that's a point and we shall see if it holds true over time or if indeed there comes a point where there is no longer a point.

And...all of Stafford's stats were with Calvin Johnson on the squad.

We're also pretty much looking at the best case scenario of the past. I suppose we could add rookie QBs that played limited snaps as a rookie like Alex Smith and Eli Manning but otherwise in our lifetimes most quarterbacks who perform like Kizer has out of the gate, not bad but historically bad, fail.

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1 minute ago, Kiwibrown said:

I think the worst part for Kizer is that he has britt, who has been awful. We are better without him and I hope he is our number 7 WR. We have been better without him. 

he is also missing Corey coleman, who is a top 10 player on the team in term of importance. If Kizer can play average i think we can looks forward to Colemans return. 

Yeah Britt has been terrible but Kizer can still look good with a terrible WR. He hasn't, nor anything close to it. Shaky accuracy, slow reads, mistimed throws and stupid interceptions to go along with way too many sacks. He does sometimes throw a nice pass but not nearly enough to be effective.

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Just now, Thomas5737 said:

We're also pretty much looking at the best case scenario of the past. I suppose we could add rookie QBs that played limited snaps as a rookie like Alex Smith and Eli Manning but otherwise in our lifetimes most quarterbacks who perform like Kizer has out of the gate, not bad but historically bad, fail.

True to some extent.

However, the comparison is somewhat apt b/c of their play styles, the flashes they show, and the similarity of their mistakes.

It's not just a cherry picking of numbers with a positive spin to support Kizer.

Ryan Leafs and Geno Smiths of the world did not show the pocket blitz avoidance movement, WOW throws (Kenny Britt TD; Deep middle passes) Kizer has briefly flashed.

I did see that in Stafford's first year along with really bad turnovers.

it's clear that we have seen limited flashes with Kizer this year.

I'm not arguing that Kizer will be great, and I've made sure to attenuate peoples' perceptions to that effect; however, there is some precedent that we don't yet know what Kizer will be and given his predraft evaluation as well as his limited flashes in fact it good trend toward the positive a la Stafford.

General point is that in the sea of "Kizer's a bust" overzealous evaluations I'm trying to make the point albeit hammering it in that time will tell and things still might turn out to be okay.

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33 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

We're also pretty much looking at the best case scenario of the past. I suppose we could add rookie QBs that played limited snaps as a rookie like Alex Smith and Eli Manning but otherwise in our lifetimes most quarterbacks who perform like Kizer has out of the gate, not bad but historically bad, fail.

Great QB's peak after the age of 28. Kizer is 21, he has a lot of time to develop. We have him for 4 more years. We need to keep him and let him develop. Even if we get Darnold or whoever. 

Qb is a cerebal and confidence basd position. Britt has done everything he could to ruin Kizers confidence.  

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38 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

We're also pretty much looking at the best case scenario of the past. I suppose we could add rookie QBs that played limited snaps as a rookie like Alex Smith and Eli Manning but otherwise in our lifetimes most quarterbacks who perform like Kizer has out of the gate, not bad but historically bad, fail.

Not completely true, your rookie season does not matter all that much if you are a top 12 pick, you were drafted because the team's scouts and GM saw talent in you and have confidence you will get better with experience and most do. The GM who drafted that top 12 QB, probably has his job riding on that QB's success and will force his HC to start him for at least 3 seasons to see if he can significantly improve. Of course, there are failures there as well, just a lower % than if you are drafted after the top 12.  If you were drafted below round 1, your chances stood at about 6% before you ever took the field and if you are historically bad, most likely the FO drafts someone higher the next draft and you are put aside as a possible starter. This is the likely scenario for Kizer especially if Peyton is hired and runs the draft.

Obviously, if the owner is now hiring Manning to run the football side of our organization, he has no confidence in those who were drafting before and I seriously doubt, if he wants to go into next season, with Kizer as his QB. He has to know that if we go into next season with Kizer as our QB and we again go 1-15 or 0-16, that he will not come close to being able to sell out the stadium and he will face the loss of millions of $$$'s. There is only so much a loyal fan base can bare, before they begin to give up on buying tickets.

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20 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

Great QB's peak after the age of 28. Kizer is 21, he has a lot of time to develop. We have him for 4 more years. We need to keep him and let him develop. Even if we get Darnold or whoever. 

Qb is a cerebal and confidence basd position. Britt has done everything he could to ruin Kizers confidence.  

3 more years. You can only get 5th year options on 1st rd picks I believe

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