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Round 2: Pick 62; Josh Myers, C Ohio State


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2 hours ago, Old Guy said:

I guess Elgton Jenkins was a failed pick then as well. He was a center as Miss St. ...

We all understand the hypothetical and remote possibility that Myers like Jenkins becomes an excellent guard, and that Hanson emerges as a high end Center, and that starting them both is a win-win excellent-excellent outcome.  RT certainly understands that as well as I do.  Point well taken.  

I think the reverse could also be acknowledged, that the likelihood that Myers is excellent but gets moved to guard in order to open a spot for Hanson's excellence at center is relatively unlikely.  

While the Jenkins/Myers analogy works to the extend that both played center in college, the analogy doesn't work as well in other ways.  Myers is clearly and explicitly drafted to play center, and is being given that direct opportunity from Day 1 of rookie camp and OTA's.  We don't have a center; he was drafted to fill that role and being given that opportunity to secure it.  By contrast, Jenkins was drafted to play guard, and was announced as a guard the moment the pick was announced, and at the first press conferences he was discussed in that context.  He was drafted with Corey Linsley entrenched at center, with two years of club control.  

So, Jenkins was scouted and drafted and announced as a guard and practiced almost exclusively at guard, with two years of Linsley entrenched at center.  Myers was scouted and drafted and announced as a center and has and will practice almost exclusively as a center, with nobody entrenched in front of him at center.  

Center is Myers intended job to win or lose.  Guard was Jenkins intended job to win or lose, and he won it convincingly.  Yes, he's good enough to play anywhere, but when he's helped out at center or tackle, it has NOT been because he lost his guard job; it's because he was needed elsewhere.  

We've got other guys who can fill in at guard, so the urgency to move Myers from center to plug in a gaping hole at guard seems unlikely.  It's not impossible, I realize, but it's pretty unlikely.  So I think it's pretty probable that *IF* Myers hypothetically ends up playing more guard than center, it will probably be because he underperformed at center and played his way off of center; center was his job to win or lose, and he lost it.  I don't want that, and it is not Gute's intent.  For Jenkins to play guard WAS Gute's intent, and did NOT reflect his having lost the center job that was never intended for him.  

 

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But yeah, much of the fun of being a fan is hoping that unlikely good stories turn out favorably.  I'd love it if Myers looks great; but that Hanson, a street FA that they signed after they released him last season, is a wonderful happy-ending story where the street FA develops into a high-end starting lineman on a championship-caliber squad.  

It's not impossible, these stories DO happen in the NFL, and sometimes having championship teams links to having some happy-ending stories like that.  Pretty much any of the younger players in camp, I'm hoping that they do develop and emerge as guys who can be capable starters if opportunity knocks.  I'm not arguing against that possibility, that's some of the fun of the NFL game.

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Just now, craig said:

But yeah, much of the fun of being a fan is hoping that unlikely good stories turn out favorably.  I'd love it if Myers looks great; but that Hanson, a street FA that they signed after they released him last season, is a wonderful happy-ending story where the street FA develops into a high-end starting lineman on a championship-caliber squad.  

It's not impossible, these stories DO happen in the NFL, and sometimes having championship teams links to having some happy-ending stories like that.  Pretty much any of the younger players in camp, I'm hoping that they do develop and emerge as guys who can be capable starters if opportunity knocks.  I'm not arguing against that possibility, that's some of the fun of the NFL game.

Robert Tonyan! 

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25 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Robert Tonyan! 

:):):). 

You really do need to have UDFA guys who make it as productive starters and key rotation guys.  Packers have been to conference championships two years straight, in part enabled by having 4-5 UDFA starters, and other role guys.  

Offense:  Tonyan, Lazard, Patrick.   Defense:  Barnes and Sullivan

Super Bowl team, must have been others, but Jenkins and Shields certainly come to memory, and Zombo and Walden or whomever.  

Having some of those types of guys work out as either good or at least anti-awful, serviceable, roster-fill players is kinda essential for teams to end up being top-10 teams.  So it's not naive or ridiculous to have hopes for Hanson or Winfree or Nijman or Braden or Uphoff or Cronk or whomever.  

 

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1 hour ago, incognito_man said:

If Hanson improves to be that good it means nothing about the Myers pick at all. It is not wasted. Having more good players on the OL is never a waste.

You are holding out hope that Hanson can still improve enough to make the 53, that's OK. I'm not going to be as patient as you are though. If the Packers had any confidence that Hanson could be even a Evan Dietrich-Smith type player they  probably wouldn't have invested a high end  draft pick in Myers. Hanson was truly awful in pass blocking one on ones in TC last summer, I believe Hanson won 2 matchups all of TC and was by far the worst of all OL players. I Google searched for Silverstein's end of TC breakdown, but could not find the link to share here. If Myer is not better than that, it was a wasted pick.      

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1 hour ago, R T said:

Jenkins has nothing to do with a comparison between Hanson and Myers. 

Jenkins and Myers were both college centers. Jenkins moved to guard in NFL. You said, if Hanson beat out Myers and Myers wound up starting at guard this year it was a wasted pick.

Seems the comparison is actually quite apt. It's actually not that many dots to connect. Surprised you didn't connect them. 

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1 hour ago, R T said:

Jenkins has nothing to do with a comparison between Hanson and Myers. 

It not Hanson and Mwyers.  It is Meyers and any IOL that would show ability to play center and Meyers the ability to move to guard.  If Meyers is a starter at guard or center, it becomes a good pick.  Pigeon holing Meyers to only be a center or it is a failed pick is silly imo..

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20 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Jenkins and Myers were both college centers. Jenkins moved to guard in NFL. You said, if Hanson beat out Myers and Myers wound up starting at guard this year it was a wasted pick.

Seems the comparison is actually quite apt. It's actually not that many dots to connect. Surprised you didn't connect them. 

"If Hanson displays equal ability to Myers, it is a failed pick" is the grand total of my comment. Said nothing about anything else. Very little to get confused about, but not surprised you got confused. 

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1 hour ago, R T said:

You are holding out hope that Hanson can still improve enough to make the 53, that's OK. I'm not going to be as patient as you are though. If the Packers had any confidence that Hanson could be even a Evan Dietrich-Smith type player they  probably wouldn't have invested a high end  draft pick in Myers. Hanson was truly awful in pass blocking one on ones in TC last summer, I believe Hanson won 2 matchups all of TC and was by far the worst of all OL players. I Google searched for Silverstein's end of TC breakdown, but could not find the link to share here. If Myer is not better than that, it was a wasted pick.      

Perhaps we are talking past each other. I have zero hope about Hanson. I'm simply pointing out that any other player turning out better in camp doesn't mean the Myers pick was/is wasted. At the time of the pick, C was a huge need, and if he turns out good, too, it's a huge advantage to have good OL depth.

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1 hour ago, R T said:

"If Hanson displays equal ability to Myers, it is a failed pick" is the grand total of my comment. Said nothing about anything else. Very little to get confused about, but not surprised you got confused. 

That comment was in reply to Incognito who opined it would be a good thing if Hanson was good enough to win the center position and to move Myers to guard. Context matters and you left out context to try and make your point which is disingenuous. 

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19 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

That comment was in reply to Incognito who opined it would be a good thing if Hanson was good enough to win the center position and to move Myers to guard. Context matters and you left out context to try and make your point which is disingenuous. 

That comment was NOT in reply to Incognito, so you were wrong and confused again. It's okay to admit you were wrong. That blows your 'context' theory all to hell also. Rather than assuming you think you know what I'm thinking, you could just read what is actually written for what it says. Because you are not very good at the assuming thing. Better yet you could just block me, than you wouldn't ever be responding to one of my posting well you were having a senior moment. Just an idea to strongly consider.    

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On 7/9/2021 at 1:15 PM, 15412 said:

It's nice that Myers may have versatility, but it isn't why he was drafted.  He was drafted to lock down the center position, period.  He was a better fit in the Packer system at center than Creed was, who went with the next pick.  As far as choosing a center in the 2nd round, why not?  Talent dictates more so than position.  Granted had he been a left tackle with the same expectations he goes a round sooner, but in the end they are all football players.

You don't get drafted high as an IOL unless you're either elite at a certain position (i.e Mike Iupati) or you offer positional versatility.

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