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🏈 Pick #80 is in: LB/S, Devine Diablo, Virginia Tech


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5 hours ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

Devil's advocate. His highlight reel is amazing. But my concern is why did he last until the third round?

Because he's technically a tweener. He's not a fit for every defense.

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41 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Because he's technically a tweener. He's not a fit for every defense.

That and he's not refined.  He was a WR until a few years ago..

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On 7/5/2021 at 11:59 PM, Jerry said:

Saw someone post a link to the mockdraftable website and started looking up players.  Saw Deablo and thought I'd share that he's pretty similar to K. Chancellor like everyone has been saying.  

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/divine-deablo

Only different I really see is that Deablo is actually more athletic.  Just thought I'd share to pass the time until the season starts.

Chancellor is the obvious comparison but he had great instincts, was actually a pretty good cover guy and was an intelligent football player. That's a lot to live up to and we simply don't know if he'll be Chancellor Lite or Obi Melifonwu just yet....... can't wait to see these guys in pads in Gus Bradley's scheme and see what we've actually gotten........

We haven't really had much joy with these type of guys that are safety/linebackers thinking back to Melifonwu, Darnell Bing and a few others I forget their names. Maybe that was our poor coaching in the past so there is room for some optimism.

Edited by Darbsk
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On 7/12/2021 at 1:10 PM, Darbsk said:

Chancellor is the obvious comparison but he had great instincts, was actually a pretty good cover guy and was an intelligent football player. That's a lot to live up to and we simply don't know if he'll be Chancellor Lite or Obi Melifonwu just yet....... can't wait to see these guys in pads in Gus Bradley's scheme and see what we've actually gotten........

We haven't really had much joy with these type of guys that are safety/linebackers thinking back to Melifonwu, Darnell Bing and a few others I forget their names. Maybe that was our poor coaching in the past so there is room for some optimism.

The LB/S tweener/hybrid is the position I have done the biggest turnaround on in terms of how I evaluate, value, and my belief in their ability to be positive impact players to teams in the NFL since I really started evaluating prospects and the intricacies that goes into that (which would have been around 2004 or 2005). When I first got big into "evaluating" prospects those types of players were prospects I was regularly much lower on than many others and they were the guys I almost never wanted to pull the trigger on. I was of the opinion that those players almost always struggle to be good NFL players because the game is so fast, the need for high level athleticism AND reaction/instincts is so high that players that don't have an easy path at a very specific, defined role are just going to have an even bigger uphill battle than every prospect already faces. 

Over the past 5 or so years though, I have almost done a 180. I often times find myself liking those hybrid players more than the consensus seems to. And they are now guys that I think provide tremendous value and can often times be some of the best bargains and steals you can find. This mostly comes from the evolution of how defenses are schemed now. You don't so much have to find that very specific defined role. Defenses across the league regularly use and have a ton of success with 3 safeties, the money backer S that plays primarily in the box, hybrid safety/nickel corners, etc. What once was such an achilles heel of being a versatile player that has to get kind of lucky to land in a defense ran by an innovative and great football mind, is now a position that regularly finds success on a wide range of elite defenses ran by great coaches to average defenses with coaches most seem to view as not evolving as much with the times as fans would like. 

All that said, I still tend to like those prospects and their NFL outlook in a general sense while still not really loving the idea of the Raiders taking them specifically. Maybe it's the past failures and huge whiffs we have seemed to have without really any notable huge hits on prospects that are a unique blend of multiple positions, maybe it's just a lack of faith in them identifying the right guys to turn the defense at all at very specific spots on prospects that are prototypical fits, maybe it's a lack of faith in any defensive coordinator we have had in legitimately almost my entire life of watching Raider football, or a combination of all of the above (most likely). Those players just scare me, and they typically leave me feeling like it's an easy projection of not finding the right role and not being able to develop them to excel in whatever role we use them in (and usually I disagree with the role they land on, kind of like Bowden on offense as a RB right after he was drafted). 

Perhaps it's just me being optimistic or just trying to convince myself without any actual proof, but Bradley is a coordinator I have way more faith in running a defense than I did in guys like Gunther, Norton, Ryan, Allen, etc. And there probably isn't a spot I am more confident in Bradley in than his ability to get good production in comparison to the investment out of those types of prospects, the guys that kind of seem stuck in between two specific roles. He has done some very good things with those types in the past. 

For that reason, and because I like Deablo a fair amount for a mid round pick and feel like he's not quite as much of a tweener as you usually see lacking enough size or clearly lacking speed or whatever. I'm not at all saying it's a sure thing, and it's a spot even the biggest success stories take a year or two to really hit their stride, but I'm far more excited to see what Bradley can do with those types of players, and if you do it well those types of players can be such a huge x factor and huge advantage against teams than I have been prior. Hopefully Deablo can get healthy and get reps in camp, if not it really dampers his chances of adding anything to the team year one. But if he does, I look forward to seeing what role we have in mind and seeing how he develops over the course of the next couple years.

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10 hours ago, Mr Raider said:

The LB/S tweener/hybrid is the position I have done the biggest turnaround on in terms of how I evaluate, value, and my belief in their ability to be positive impact players to teams in the NFL since I really started evaluating prospects and the intricacies that goes into that (which would have been around 2004 or 2005). When I first got big into "evaluating" prospects those types of players were prospects I was regularly much lower on than many others and they were the guys I almost never wanted to pull the trigger on. I was of the opinion that those players almost always struggle to be good NFL players because the game is so fast, the need for high level athleticism AND reaction/instincts is so high that players that don't have an easy path at a very specific, defined role are just going to have an even bigger uphill battle than every prospect already faces. 

Over the past 5 or so years though, I have almost done a 180. I often times find myself liking those hybrid players more than the consensus seems to. And they are now guys that I think provide tremendous value and can often times be some of the best bargains and steals you can find. This mostly comes from the evolution of how defenses are schemed now. You don't so much have to find that very specific defined role. Defenses across the league regularly use and have a ton of success with 3 safeties, the money backer S that plays primarily in the box, hybrid safety/nickel corners, etc. What once was such an achilles heel of being a versatile player that has to get kind of lucky to land in a defense ran by an innovative and great football mind, is now a position that regularly finds success on a wide range of elite defenses ran by great coaches to average defenses with coaches most seem to view as not evolving as much with the times as fans would like. 

All that said, I still tend to like those prospects and their NFL outlook in a general sense while still not really loving the idea of the Raiders taking them specifically. Maybe it's the past failures and huge whiffs we have seemed to have without really any notable huge hits on prospects that are a unique blend of multiple positions, maybe it's just a lack of faith in them identifying the right guys to turn the defense at all at very specific spots on prospects that are prototypical fits, maybe it's a lack of faith in any defensive coordinator we have had in legitimately almost my entire life of watching Raider football, or a combination of all of the above (most likely). Those players just scare me, and they typically leave me feeling like it's an easy projection of not finding the right role and not being able to develop them to excel in whatever role we use them in (and usually I disagree with the role they land on, kind of like Bowden on offense as a RB right after he was drafted). 

Perhaps it's just me being optimistic or just trying to convince myself without any actual proof, but Bradley is a coordinator I have way more faith in running a defense than I did in guys like Gunther, Norton, Ryan, Allen, etc. And there probably isn't a spot I am more confident in Bradley in than his ability to get good production in comparison to the investment out of those types of prospects, the guys that kind of seem stuck in between two specific roles. He has done some very good things with those types in the past. 

For that reason, and because I like Deablo a fair amount for a mid round pick and feel like he's not quite as much of a tweener as you usually see lacking enough size or clearly lacking speed or whatever. I'm not at all saying it's a sure thing, and it's a spot even the biggest success stories take a year or two to really hit their stride, but I'm far more excited to see what Bradley can do with those types of players, and if you do it well those types of players can be such a huge x factor and huge advantage against teams than I have been prior. Hopefully Deablo can get healthy and get reps in camp, if not it really dampers his chances of adding anything to the team year one. But if he does, I look forward to seeing what role we have in mind and seeing how he develops over the course of the next couple years.

You raise some really good points here. I too have always been reluctant to get on board or pessimistic when we draft these type of players who don't seem to fit into a conventional position. I think I'm probably like you just wary of trusting any of our coaches and specifically the defensive coaches as we've just been burned too many times. We've heard the narrative about being 'multiple' and adaptable and so on and yet nothing seems to change. We've probably had or drafted some really high potential players that have been squandered over the last twenty years by a total lack of long term coaching vision, cohesiveness and just simply sub par coaching and co-ordinating on the defensive side.

As more and more teams become concerned with adaptability and being able to be fast and flexible these guys could have more and more scope moving forward. I really do hope that Gus Bradley has his finger on the pulse and us the guy that can finally drag our defence kicking and screaming out if the dark ages. I do have belief that he can be the coach to do that but as you say, we've had optimism before, we've had faith before and we've had belief before and we've always been left with that empty feeling of being once again let down........ Man, I hope this time is different.......something feels different doesn't it this time?!?!?! 😀

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I like the pick, alot, seems like a gus bradley selection. He does seem like a tweener in his clips at Virginia tech but he might be the type of player that makes a name for his self on special teams and makes a impact that way. We took three safeties in the draft so hopefully someone shows good value. 

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17 minutes ago, KlenlyKenny said:

I like the pick, alot, seems like a gus bradley selection. He does seem like a tweener in his clips at Virginia tech but he might be the type of player that makes a name for his self on special teams and makes a impact that way. We took three safeties in the draft so hopefully someone shows good value. 

I hope we are not drafting 3rd round special teams players.  Somebody needs to get fired if that is the case.

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18 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I hope we are not drafting 3rd round special teams players.  Somebody needs to get fired if that is the case.

Yeh, hope that isn't the intention at least. 

In my mind the 1st and 2nd round should really be competing to start from the get go, or be very high ceiling players that may need a year. 

The 3rd and 4th round I feel should be guys that can contribute rookie year but may take a year or two to acclimate but should still be aiming at a starting spot or be role players that play big roles like rotation pass rushers or run stopping DTs. 

Only in the 5th round on are you really looking for depth, ST players and guys that fill specific niches like 3rd down backs or kick returners or purely run stuffing LBs in my opinion. 3rd round and up the aim should always be starters or high snap, playmaking guys I believe.

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5 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Yeh, hope that isn't the intention at least. 

In my mind the 1st and 2nd round should really be competing to start from the get go, or be very high ceiling players that may need a year. 

The 3rd and 4th round I feel should be guys that can contribute rookie year but may take a year or two to acclimate but should still be aiming at a starting spot or be role players that play big roles like rotation pass rushers or run stopping DTs. 

Only in the 5th round on are you really looking for depth, ST players and guys that fill specific niches like 3rd down backs or kick returners or purely run stuffing LBs in my opinion. 3rd round and up the aim should always be starters or high snap, playmaking guys I believe.

I want my 3rd rounders competing for a starting spot towards the end of their rookie year if not sooner.  Not always going to happen but we should be able to hit on every 2-3 players in the 3rd.  We have had 8 3rd round picks since Gabe Jackson and have not hit on one.  I am not counting this years 3rds or the 3rds we traded for Pitt WRs that did not work out either.  Hopefully Edwards, I am still very high on his potential, works out but until proven otherwise he is not a good pick.  So out of the last 12 3rd round picks we have 3 unproven (4 if you want to count Muse), 2 wasted trades, and 6-7 really bad picks.  That is just 1 round out of seven but at least it is clearly our worst drafting round though most of the others are not a lot better.

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On 7/14/2021 at 10:46 AM, drfrey13 said:

I hope we are not drafting 3rd round special teams players.  Somebody needs to get fired if that is the case.

Maybe they shouldn't be fired, and maybe thats the area that should improve. 

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On 7/14/2021 at 12:46 PM, drfrey13 said:

I hope we are not drafting 3rd round special teams players.  Somebody needs to get fired if that is the case.

I agree with the first sentence. No way Gruden gets fired though.

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5 hours ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

I agree with the first sentence. No way Gruden gets fired though.

If we are making moves like that repeatedly we know where the weak link is.  You can not waste picks in the first 3 rounds every year and expect to improve.  If Gruden runs the show during the draft and constantly makes mistakes then Mayock needs to get that control back or we find someone that does.  Does not need to be a power struggle if you are persuasive enough.  If Mayock is making the calls and continues to screw up then we need to move on.  This team has wasted draft and cap capital for to long.  We all know they suck.  We just paid Hudson to play for someone else this year so we could go from the #1 rated C to the dead last center.  This is based off of human rankings so they can be wrong but that is a huge reach to think we made a good decision there.  It was nice to get a 3rd out of it but no way was it worth it.  Should have told him he can play out this year since he had money we were already going to pay him and we would trade him at the end of the year.  You can have what you want after you give me what I paid for.  Gruden probably does not get fired but maybe he should be.  He definitely should not be running the personnel side.  He should have input but not the final say.

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38 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

If we are making moves like that repeatedly we know where the weak link is.  You can not waste picks in the first 3 rounds every year and expect to improve.  If Gruden runs the show during the draft and constantly makes mistakes then Mayock needs to get that control back or we find someone that does.  Does not need to be a power struggle if you are persuasive enough.  If Mayock is making the calls and continues to screw up then we need to move on.  This team has wasted draft and cap capital for to long.  We all know they suck.  We just paid Hudson to play for someone else this year so we could go from the #1 rated C to the dead last center.  This is based off of human rankings so they can be wrong but that is a huge reach to think we made a good decision there.  It was nice to get a 3rd out of it but no way was it worth it.  Should have told him he can play out this year since he had money we were already going to pay him and we would trade him at the end of the year.  You can have what you want after you give me what I paid for.  Gruden probably does not get fired but maybe he should be.  He definitely should not be running the personnel side.  He should have input but not the final say.

Hudson's run blocking did decline dramatically last year. He was actually bad in the run game. Gabe also was pretty bad in the run game. If James sucks, we can criticize it, but if he's a decent starter I wouldn't say we got robbed.

If a lot of our young starters like Abram/Arnette/Muse fizzle out, it will definitely be grounds for firing someone though. And you and I both know who.

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2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Hudson's run blocking did decline dramatically last year. He was actually bad in the run game. Gabe also was pretty bad in the run game. If James sucks, we can criticize it, but if he's a decent starter I wouldn't say we got robbed.

If a lot of our young starters like Abram/Arnette/Muse fizzle out, it will definitely be grounds for firing someone though. And you and I both know who.

I understand trading a player that is unhappy but not one I have already paid.  We are carrying over $12 million in dead cap.  Figure out a way to get rid of the dead cap and I am alright with the move.  Combine the dead cap with Brown and Snead and it is what Golladay got per year.  Just horrible management of personnel.  I would like to know why we had 3 starters on the line want to leave?  I have no clue but I have 3 guesses.  Carr, Gruden, or Cable.

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