Dome Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 4 hours ago, whodatworm23 said: So if Turner is a solid rotational player in 2021 but his presence elevates and motivates both Jordan and Davenport into career years isn't that value within the pick outside of the prospect? I would question why the staff can’t motivate a captain and the highest paid defender on the team, nor a 1st round pick we traded up for who should be playing for his big payday. It certainly isn’t a negative on Turner, it just doesn’t move the needle when there were other players I liked more and they would’ve pushed/lifted other players around them as well. Any talented player you thing in will have that effect, talent breeds competition. Similar comments were made about Tanoh Kpassagnon when the Saints signed him. A former 2nd round pick that has a similar build and skill set to Davenport and obviously a younger player than Cam. He was a guy people thought could make the DE position a bit more competitive with Nielsen working on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 18 hours ago, whodatworm23 said: Now compare that to a guy many wanted the Saints to draft at 28… Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah. JOK doesn’t get past the first box. Hes 6’1” 217 lbs. Hes a hybrid defender who in the Saints system would be competing with CGJ and PJ Williams for a big nickel hybrid role, not with anyone at the linebacker position. Its not that the Saints didn’t like JOK, they just did not value him as high as other teams might have especially some media generalized big board that has nothing to do with their system. I was rereading this thread and this stood out. Worm you talked about how Payton Turner could light a fire under Davenport and Jordan like he’s coming for their jobs and considered that sort of a bonus of selecting him. But it seems like you’re framing that as a negative for JOK saying he plays a position similar to CGJ and PJ Williams. And another thought on JOK. After a year in an NFL weight room, it would not be unusual to see a hybrid defender like JOK gain 10lbs to sturdy themselves up a bit for work in the box, that would put him at an almost identical height/weight as Kwon Alexander who is a guy we didn’t necessarily like for his run stopping prowess but his big bodied coverage abilities. This doesn’t make JOK a true linebacker, but the idea that his body type I was a holdup doesn’t jive with me. The Falcons took a borderline generational talent at TE in Pitts and already have Julio (for now) and Calvin Ridley, the Panthers have the best receiving RB in the league in McCaffrey and took Tommy Tremble to double down on Dan Arnold who had a bit of a breakout last year, and Ian Thomas who is going to cause matchup problems as well. This is before we mention the Bucs who are absolutely flush with receiving options, including one of the best TEs of all time and a former 1st round pick in OJ Howard. I don’t know if taking coverage forward box defender is such a bad idea, we’re going to need better than PJ holding things down behind CGJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted May 2, 2021 Author Share Posted May 2, 2021 13 hours ago, Dome said: I would question why the staff can’t motivate a captain and the highest paid defender on the team, nor a 1st round pick we traded up for who should be playing for his big payday. It certainly isn’t a negative on Turner, it just doesn’t move the needle when there were other players I liked more and they would’ve pushed/lifted other players around them as well. Any talented player you thing in will have that effect, talent breeds competition. Similar comments were made about Tanoh Kpassagnon when the Saints signed him. A former 2nd round pick that has a similar build and skill set to Davenport and obviously a younger player than Cam. He was a guy people thought could make the DE position a bit more competitive with Nielsen working on him. Its obvious with Jordan, Davenport, Turner and Kpassagnon that the Saints want to build this defensive line a certain way. All are big, long and versatile. I have to believe that Ryan Nielson has had a huge say in this approach. Even Onyemata is 6'4" and Granderson is 6'5" with long arms. I wanna see how it plays out. I still have faith that Davenport can break out and I do believe that Nielson is the best defensive line coach in the game. If it works, this d-line could be nasty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMG5 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Apparently JOK had a heart issue. Still would've loved to see us trade up in the 2nd to snag him, but I guess I understand why they passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 7 hours ago, JMG5 said: Apparently JOK had a heart issue. Still would've loved to see us trade up in the 2nd to snag him, but I guess I understand why they passed. Learned that lesson with Nick Fairley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted May 4, 2021 Author Share Posted May 4, 2021 8 hours ago, JMG5 said: Apparently JOK had a heart issue. Still would've loved to see us trade up in the 2nd to snag him, but I guess I understand why they passed. Payton spoke of red tags and blue tags on prospects and mentioned their were alot more this year due to uncertainty. One of the things he kept repeating when speaking of this draft class was that it was "clean" medically. I also think (from what I hear) Jabril Cox had a back issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 You just have to trust Loomis and Ireland at this point. Saints MO is very apparent. We trust our coaching staff. They take freak athletes and have confidence that they can coach them up. You're never going to have a 100% hit rate, but the Saints have been one of the better drafting teams the past 5-6 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Although I wanted JOK, thinking about how we passed on McQueen last season as well due to him being on the smaller side it makes sense why the passed on JOK. Even without the heart issue I think JOK just isn't the type of LBer the Saints want. Granted I'm not sure why the Saints didn't look to make a move for UDFA Dylan Moses, or maybe they just lost out on the bidding, but he seemed like a player that had the ideal measurements for them if he could get close to what he was before injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted May 5, 2021 Author Share Posted May 5, 2021 6 hours ago, Raves said: Although I wanted JOK, thinking about how we passed on McQueen last season as well due to him being on the smaller side it makes sense why the passed on JOK. Even without the heart issue I think JOK just isn't the type of LBer the Saints want. Granted I'm not sure why the Saints didn't look to make a move for UDFA Dylan Moses, or maybe they just lost out on the bidding, but he seemed like a player that had the ideal measurements for them if he could get close to what he was before injury. We all know this... the Saints have a prototype at certain positions but also the front office took a lot of heat (medical staff as well) after the Nick Fairley fiasco and since then the team has really cracked down on medical issues. Just think about how many times Payton mentioned that or 2021 draft class is "CLEAN" medically. Its definitely a point of enfacence for them these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted May 6, 2021 Share Posted May 6, 2021 3 hours ago, whodatworm23 said: We all know this... the Saints have a prototype at certain positions but also the front office took a lot of heat (medical staff as well) after the Nick Fairley fiasco and since then the team has really cracked down on medical issues. Just think about how many times Payton mentioned that or 2021 draft class is "CLEAN" medically. Its definitely a point of enfacence for them these days. The most important skillset a player can have is availability after all. Doesn't matter if they're the best player at their position ever if they're never able to see the field. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted May 6, 2021 Author Share Posted May 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Raves said: The most important skillset a player can have is availability after all. Doesn't matter if they're the best player at their position ever if they're never able to see the field. Very true... also fans need to understand draft picks aren't just players, their multi year multi million dollar investments for these teams. Medical conditions are a major part of the evaluation. Take Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah for example. He may have not been a prototype linebacker for the Saints but he actually played a rover / big nickel position at ND and at 6'1" 217 lbs JOK was prototype for the Saints as a possible replacement for Malcolm Jenkins down the road as a hybrid defender but his underlying medical (heart) condition likely took him off the Saints board. They took a similar chance on Nick Fairley and got burned. Couldn't do that with a top pick regardless who the prospect is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Iowa Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 (edited) Here's another chapter to this book: Just before minicamp, the Saints signed D-Back Deuce Wallace from the Ragin' Cajuns. The Saints have signed 3 players who were awarded tryouts at the rookie minicamp this last weekend. D-Tackle Lorenzo Neal out of Purdue. If the name sounds familiar, it's because this is the son of Lorenzo Neal Sr who played for the Saints many years ago. O-Tackle Kyle Murphy, a Free Agent who was originally a 6th round pick by Green Bay in 2016. Linebacker Quentin Poling, a Free Agent who was originally a 7th round pick by Miami in 2018. We all know that these guys are likely just camp bodies with a shot at the practice squad, at best, but you just never know what you'll find out there in the weeds. Edited May 17, 2021 by Mid Iowa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 On 5/17/2021 at 12:30 PM, Mid Iowa said: Kyle Murphy This is the name Kyler Murray uses at the sexual health clinic. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 Have a feeling the Saints would have looked closer at Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah had he not had the heart issue. Seemed the team wanted a LB with his skillset last season when we traded for Kwon Alexander. Owusu-Koramoah seems to have a ton of similarities to Alexander in terms of playstyle/athleticism. Obviously a moot point since we didn't draft him, but I doubt it was due to his playstyle, but rather simply being scared of the heart condition after the Fairley situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 On 5/24/2021 at 10:35 AM, tyler735 said: Have a feeling the Saints would have looked closer at Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah had he not had the heart issue. Seemed the team wanted a LB with his skillset last season when we traded for Kwon Alexander. Owusu-Koramoah seems to have a ton of similarities to Alexander in terms of playstyle/athleticism. Obviously a moot point since we didn't draft him, but I doubt it was due to his playstyle, but rather simply being scared of the heart condition after the Fairley situation. I don't know if he fits their prototype. They tend to like bigger guys on the front seven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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