Jump to content

Defending Jeff Ireland and the Saints front office:


Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

So if Turner is a solid rotational player in 2021 but his presence elevates and motivates both Jordan and Davenport into career years isn't that value within the pick outside of the prospect?

 


I would question why the staff can’t motivate a captain and the highest paid defender on the team, nor a 1st round pick we traded up for who should be playing for his big payday.

 

It certainly isn’t a negative on Turner, it just doesn’t move the needle when there were other players I liked more and they would’ve pushed/lifted other players around them as well. Any talented player you thing in will have that effect, talent breeds competition.

Similar comments were made about Tanoh Kpassagnon when the Saints signed him. A former 2nd round pick that has a similar build and skill set to Davenport and obviously a younger player than Cam.  He was a guy people thought could make the DE position a bit more competitive with Nielsen working on him.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

Now compare that to a guy many wanted the Saints to draft at 28… Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah. JOK doesn’t get past the first box. Hes 6’1” 217 lbs. Hes a hybrid defender who in the Saints system would be competing with CGJ and PJ Williams for a big nickel hybrid role, not with anyone at the linebacker position. Its not that the Saints didn’t like JOK, they just did not value him as high as other teams might have especially some media generalized big board that has nothing to do with their system.

 

I was rereading this thread and this stood out. 

Worm you talked about how Payton Turner could light a fire under Davenport and Jordan like he’s coming for their jobs and considered that sort of a bonus  of selecting him. But it seems like you’re framing that as a negative for JOK saying he plays a position similar to CGJ and PJ Williams. 
 

And another thought on JOK. After a year in an NFL weight room, it would not be unusual to see a hybrid defender like JOK gain 10lbs to sturdy themselves up a bit for work in the box, that would put him at an almost identical height/weight as Kwon Alexander who is a guy we didn’t necessarily like for his run stopping prowess but his big bodied coverage abilities. This doesn’t make JOK a true linebacker, but the idea that his body type I was a holdup doesn’t jive with me.
 

The Falcons took a borderline generational talent at TE in Pitts and already have Julio (for now) and Calvin Ridley, the Panthers have the best receiving RB in the league in McCaffrey and took Tommy Tremble to double down on Dan Arnold who had a bit of a breakout last year, and Ian Thomas who is going to cause matchup problems as well. This is before we mention the Bucs who are absolutely flush with receiving options, including one of the best TEs of all time and a former 1st round pick in OJ Howard. I don’t know if taking coverage forward box defender is such a bad idea, we’re going to need better than PJ holding things down behind CGJ.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Dome said:


I would question why the staff can’t motivate a captain and the highest paid defender on the team, nor a 1st round pick we traded up for who should be playing for his big payday.

 

It certainly isn’t a negative on Turner, it just doesn’t move the needle when there were other players I liked more and they would’ve pushed/lifted other players around them as well. Any talented player you thing in will have that effect, talent breeds competition.

Similar comments were made about Tanoh Kpassagnon when the Saints signed him. A former 2nd round pick that has a similar build and skill set to Davenport and obviously a younger player than Cam.  He was a guy people thought could make the DE position a bit more competitive with Nielsen working on him.

 

Its obvious with Jordan, Davenport, Turner and Kpassagnon that the Saints want to build this defensive line a certain way. All are big, long and versatile. I have to believe that Ryan Nielson has had a huge say in this approach. Even Onyemata is 6'4" and Granderson is 6'5" with long arms. I wanna see how it plays out. I still have faith that Davenport can break out and I do believe that Nielson is the best defensive line coach in the game. If it works, this d-line could be nasty.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently JOK had a heart issue. Still would've loved to see us trade up in the 2nd to snag him, but I guess I understand why they passed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, JMG5 said:

Apparently JOK had a heart issue. Still would've loved to see us trade up in the 2nd to snag him, but I guess I understand why they passed.

Learned that lesson with Nick Fairley

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, JMG5 said:

Apparently JOK had a heart issue. Still would've loved to see us trade up in the 2nd to snag him, but I guess I understand why they passed.

Payton spoke of red tags and blue tags on prospects and mentioned their were alot more this year due to uncertainty. One of the things he kept repeating when speaking of this draft class was that it was "clean" medically. 

 

I also think (from what I hear) Jabril Cox had a back issue. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You just have to trust Loomis and Ireland at this point. Saints MO is very apparent. We trust our coaching staff. They take freak athletes and have confidence that they can coach them up. You're never going to have a 100% hit rate, but the Saints have been one of the better drafting teams the past 5-6 years.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Although I wanted JOK, thinking about how we passed on McQueen last season as well due to him being on the smaller side it makes sense why the passed on JOK.  Even without the heart issue I think JOK just isn't the type of LBer the Saints want.  Granted I'm not sure why the Saints didn't look to make a move for UDFA Dylan Moses, or maybe they just lost out on the bidding, but he seemed like a player that had the ideal measurements for them if he could get close to what he was before injury.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Raves said:

Although I wanted JOK, thinking about how we passed on McQueen last season as well due to him being on the smaller side it makes sense why the passed on JOK.  Even without the heart issue I think JOK just isn't the type of LBer the Saints want.  Granted I'm not sure why the Saints didn't look to make a move for UDFA Dylan Moses, or maybe they just lost out on the bidding, but he seemed like a player that had the ideal measurements for them if he could get close to what he was before injury.

We all know this... the Saints have a prototype at certain positions but also the front office took a lot of heat (medical staff as well) after the Nick Fairley fiasco and since then the team has really cracked down on medical issues. Just think about how many times Payton mentioned that or 2021 draft class is "CLEAN" medically. Its definitely a point of enfacence for them these days.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

We all know this... the Saints have a prototype at certain positions but also the front office took a lot of heat (medical staff as well) after the Nick Fairley fiasco and since then the team has really cracked down on medical issues. Just think about how many times Payton mentioned that or 2021 draft class is "CLEAN" medically. Its definitely a point of enfacence for them these days.

The most important skillset a player can have is availability after all.  Doesn't matter if they're the best player at their position ever if they're never able to see the field.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Raves said:

The most important skillset a player can have is availability after all.  Doesn't matter if they're the best player at their position ever if they're never able to see the field.

Very true... also fans need to understand draft picks aren't just players, their multi year multi million dollar investments for these teams. Medical conditions are a major part of the evaluation. Take Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah for example. He may have not been a prototype linebacker for the Saints but he actually played a rover / big nickel position at ND and at 6'1" 217 lbs JOK was prototype for the Saints as a possible replacement for Malcolm Jenkins down the road as a hybrid defender but his underlying medical (heart) condition likely took him off the Saints board. They took a similar chance on Nick Fairley and got burned. Couldn't do that with a top pick regardless who the prospect is.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...