Gutey or Rodgers?

[skibrett15]

1 minute ago, squire12 said:

are you sure they are?

Good teams? They may have a bad season or a bad postseason, but it sure seems the only ticket to the postseason or about 10 wins is a Good QB on a 20%-ish contract, an elite qb on a 20%-ish contract, or a young QB on a 5%-ish contract.

Those are the only viable rosters in the NFL right now if you're hoping to win.

[squire12]

6 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

Good teams? They may have a bad season or a bad postseason, but it sure seems the only ticket to the postseason or about 10 wins is a Good QB on a 20%-ish contract, an elite qb on a 20%-ish contract, or a young QB on a 5%-ish contract.

Those are the only viable rosters in the NFL right now if you're hoping to win.

Miami

Rams

Houston

are all examples in 2020 that would not fit the above elusive criteria you set

[incognito_man]

7 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

it sure seems the only ticket to the postseason or about 10 wins is a Good QB on a 20%-ish contract, an elite qb on a 20%-ish contract, or a young QB on a 5%-ish contract.

This describes like 24/32 teams

[skibrett15]

3 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

The obvious counter-argument is that, yes, QBs are leaving money on the table because they see attractiveness in franchises that have invested a higher percentage of the cap on other players and therefore give the QB a chance to build a legacy.

Thus, the market is efficient because the QBs are making that choice. It's a trade-off. They CHOOSE to sign extensions with a known system/coach/team because there's more for them than open market cash. It's not that the option doesn't exist...

yeah. you're describing the non-monetary factors here.  If you want to call that efficient, then maybe I'm mis-using the term efficient. That's fine, I only took econ 101 and it was a while ago.

 

I think that QBs making that choice is really bad for competitive balance.  It leads to these  QBs having cap charges which are way too low when compared to any other player in the NFL relative to their on-field efficacy.  Their Cap $ per win share (imaginary stat) is just way too low.

 

I would like to see the "norm" elite QB cap charge raise to 30-35% (or whatever the market decides) because that would bring their cap charge in line with their on-field efficacy, which is how it works with every other NFL position.

[squire12]

@skibrett15

I am really trying to follow what proposal you are suggesting.   I think if you can put something down that is thought out, it would be helpful.   I appreciate you posting the thought and working through the details on the fly.  

 

[cannondale]

 

[squire12]

6 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

I would like to see the "norm" elite QB cap charge raise to 30-35% (or whatever the market decides) because that would bring their cap charge in line with their on-field efficacy, which is how it works with every other NFL position.

Does elite play lead to elite performance of the team in the end?

If Rodgers is Elite and doubles/triples his cap % hit, which of the following players are you willing to part with from the 2020 roster?   Somewhere around 3-4 of those players need to be switched out for rookie or UDFA players.   Rodgers 2020 cap hit around 10%

Bahktiari - 8%
Adams - 8%
Linsley - 5.5%
Turner - 4%
Amos - 4.5%
Z Smith - 8%
P Smith - 6%

Edited May 3, 2021 by squire12

[incognito_man]

@Outpost31 has already done the research to show that the handicap already exists:

QBs are historical "expensive" prices are already unlikely to win the Super Bowl almost certainly because they already cost too much.

I think ALL of the evidence supports the argument that QBs are overpaid relative to value vs underpaid (on their non-rookie contracts). So it will take a boatload of data to convince me otherwise. Everything I've seen to date indicates the exact opposite is true.

[incognito_man]

2 minutes ago, cannondale said:

 

I mean, it's publicly available that one person (one of Aaron's best friends) said that it is inaccurate. Like he literally said it was "garbage"

but that tweet is old already, too

[PACKRULE]

1 minute ago, cannondale said:

 

This kind is stuff where the media placate to AR is brutal. Like he should get a say in the roster and such. I just read that he was mad about Nelson and that started things. With that said part of why Nelson had to go was AR's dependence on him and inability to look elsewhere. AR is to stuck looking at his greatness he misses all his flaws and warts. His play this last year was so much better but also resulted in having no choice but to play better due to his ego and better coaching. He's a classic Tom Cruise days of thunder............run laps your way or run laps my way. Even with evidence showing his way sucks he still chooses his way. 

He needs to be careful what he wishes for as he may end up with another team that will have the same problem trying to build around his cap number. 

[cannondale]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

I mean, it's publicly available that one person (one of Aaron's best friends) said that it is inaccurate. Like he literally said it was "garbage"

but that tweet is old already, too

you read it wrong

[incognito_man]

3 minutes ago, cannondale said:

you read it wrong

no. I didn't lol

*AJ Hawk came out and said the idea that Aaron Rodgers wants Gute fire is "garbage". But that may have surfaced after the tweet you posted.

Edited May 3, 2021 by incognito_man

[PACKRULE]

2 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

I mean, it's publicly available that one person (one of Aaron's best friends) said that it is inaccurate. Like he literally said it was "garbage"

but that tweet is old already, too

Does it matter though AR hasn't said squat so there is truth to it all. At the end of the day who cares anymore what it is. the GBP need to man up and work out the best possible plan for ousting him and the best returns on their investment in him over the last 16 years. 

If he has to sit for a bit as a result that's fine, if we can pull a great deal after June 1st great. Either way he needs to take his show on the road. 

[cannondale]

7 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

no. I didn't lol

*AJ Hawk came out and said the idea that Aaron Rodgers wants Gute fire is "garbage". But that may have surfaced after the tweet you posted.

That's correct, and Hawk said he was absolutely speculating, which is fine. The only reason I posted the tweet is because I thought it was interesting that Rob hasn't heard any kickback on it whatsoever. And at least for me, IF that would turn out to be true - basically trumps everything.

[MantyWrestler]

5 hours ago, rbens06 said:

I should clarify; the Packers explored to converting his salary to a bonus and that likely would need Rodgers to sign off since the salary becomes a "signing bonus". However, the 6.8 bonus they paid him could have been converted without his signing off from everything I have seen. 

I think that readiness and such is all part of that conversation; draft experts in the media said Love isn't ready, but GB might think he is closer than most and could play early, i.e. sit a year and be ready, but they could also be in agreement with the media experts and think 2-3 years of sitting is best and then he will be the most ready for the best chance of success; regardless that is the conversation that could have been had. I dont think not having it is cause for this reaction from Rodgers, but Rodgers was in that situation so he knows the mindset of a guy like Love; i.e. he knows Love will want to play as early as he can, publicly Love can say otherwise, but it still is out there that he is a high pick and will want to play. I can see Rodgers get mad, but not to this extent and not to have that linger.

Ya but who cares if Love wants to play sooner. That’s for the coaches to decide. Do the Packers know it did they know how long Rogers expects to play? Not sure about that either.

Other than the Love pick, I just don’t know why Rodgers is so bent. We’ve given him talent. They’ve spent numerous resources trying to help the defense, it’s not like they’re not trying. We’ve had some good drafts since TT retired.