Gutey or Rodgers?

[Kampfgeist]

10 hours ago, Toddfather said:

I think it has more to do with respect and acknowledgement. The man has an ego. I mean, he's an NFL QB and one of the best to do it. I think he's towards the end, and the way it has gone the last, how many years has soured him greatly. This slight is even bigger than that draft fall... The box of recruiting letter rejections doesn't even touch this. IMO he has seen how some legends have been treated... How their input mattered... Whether wrong or right we sit in an interesting position because we do not have an owner. I think he has been discouraged, and honestly, disrespected over a lot of moves, situations, and an over all lack of communication. He is a HOF QB, and IMO he feels like he is the assistant to the assistant regional manager (😊). The man is over it. Its clear as day the silos still exists in Green Bay because 1.) The only thing Murph-man focused on was the franchise and B.) no one read the damn room and realized in this business you have to deal with egos... Some will call it "divas" but no it's egos. You have to be wired a certain way for a man like Rodge to get where he is. If you sit there and feel like you can treat him, and I do not think it was intentional. I think Gute is very much learning what this role is. He is no longer a scout. I also think the Packers are being taught a lesson that a franchise with an owner learned a loooong time ago.. but if you think you can approach a almost 38 HOF QB the same way you approached him when he was 28... The man isn't stupid... So many stupid *** mistakes were made. THAT is what the issue is. How and why it got this far, especially after the MM departure. 1265 Lombardi Ave needs to learn how to read a damn room... 

Interesting perspective.   I disagree entirely with the premise that GB's ownership structure is somehow to blame.    GB is far from the only NFL franchise to have to manage the ego of a player or to have a public squabble with one of their stars.   This reads like GB is uniquely in this situation because they don't have a traditional ownership structure - completely disregarding every other NFL franchise that has a traditional ownership structure.   Or the non-NFL professional franchises that all have to deal with the same issues (Harden, Durant, James, every Scott Boras client in baseball).  Leave the bubble and one sees we are far from the only franchise to have a public spat with a player.     

Drew Brees, Carson Palmer, Le'Veon Bell, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Yannick Ngakoue just some names that immediately come to mind.    This list would be VERY extensive if researching names of players that threatened to leave their team, threatened to avoid all offseason activities, threatened to never play another down felt underappreciated etc..

Funny enough, all of these players play for teams with traditional ownership groups and some of the most influential owners in football.    Maybe when Jerry Jones or one of the Rooney's get some more experience as owners this type of thing won't happen in their franchise though

Aaron Rodgers wants a new contract that guarantees he can leave GB on his own terms and pays him at the top of the pay scale.   He doesn't want to see the Cousins of the world or the Prescott's of the world making more money than him or playing with greater guarantees.  Absent that, things get messy and ownership structure is entirely irrelevant.   Gutey is stuck acquiescing to that, giving a 38 yr old (and by my understanding, aging every year) player all the leverage and potentially hamstringing the franchise in the future or making a player play under a contract which gives the franchise more leverage.   Rock--->Hard Place -- Experience just tells you they are both sh7^%y places to lay down

 

 

 

[incognito_man]

3 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

I’m out-numbered on this issue and not able to effectively articulate my logic here - no fault of anyone’s.  I’ll just say I’m glad Gute is reviewing his steps on this and took the bold step of taking on some of the responsibility for strife.  I admire this quality and think he will learn and grow from this.

Rodgers is a difficult human being to predict, know, understand, and most importantly, get close to.  I’m seeing that a bit more clearly now.

I think there's an absolute firewall between what you're proposing/suggesting (which I think we all reasonably agree with: that Rodgers is consulted and there's an open line of communication simply to placate to his personality). However, that, then, opens up a can of worms of expectations on his part unless communication is VERY clear.

He really shouldn't need someone to tell him "Hey Aaron, we value your input a LOT. And we will come to you when we want your take on things - but personnel decisions and discussions are NOT something you will be a part of." But, if they didn't clarify that for him, perhaps they should have thought to.

[squire12]

11 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

I want to address this specific question, because it’s a very good one.

I’m not an expert manager within my organization - average by most standards - but I’ve come to realize some things through the years.  The more I know about the person I’m managing, and the more I know about how they feel and what makes them tick, the better.  I need an advantage.  To get this, I need to earn their trust - they need to trust me enough to come to me when they’re upset, without worrying about the repercussions of coming to me.  I can nip a lot of situations in the bud before they fester if I’m in the know.

Gute was caught off guard - seemingly the entire organization was.  That, or they knew these decisions would pi$$ AR off and just miscalculated how bad the situation would become.  Had someone - any of the coaches on staff, the ball boy, whoever - had fostered a close enough relationship with Rodgers that they could sense this coming, this intel could’ve been brought forward and steps may have been taken to interecede before it reached this point.

You mean the player that has shut out his family?

 

Maybe the Gutekunst decided that the best decision given what GB knew how Rodgers was from a personality perspective felt that keeping the possibility of Love being picked was the best decision for the GB Packers in the short and long run.   Could there be bumps in that decision, for sure.  Just like informing Rodgers would not ensure that no bumps would be felt.  

 

[Sasquatch]

13 minutes ago, R T said:

What you are describing is a locker room situation, that coaches are informing players why something is done in the game plan. The Packers FO is the national headquarters in your example and national headquarters isn't coming to your store to explain what they are doing to make you feel better. There is a chain of command in your work place and with the Packers.      

Invalid analogy.  The GBP are not a chain store.  They all live under the same roof.  Yes, there’s still a chain of command, but the best commanders have informants everywhere.  We need a snowflake mvp QB whisperer and that intel goes straight up to the 4th floor.

[Leader]

1 minute ago, Sasquatch said:

We need a snowflake mvp QB whisperer and that intel goes straight up to the 4th floor.

They did. AVP + Jake

[cannondale]

2 minutes ago, squire12 said:

You mean the player that has shut out his family?

 

Maybe the Gutekunst decided that the best decision given what GB knew how Rodgers was from a personality perspective felt that keeping the possibility of Love being picked was the best decision for the GB Packers in the short and long run.   Could there be bumps in that decision, for sure.  Just like informing Rodgers would not ensure that no bumps would be felt.  

 

This needs to stop being a thing

[spilltray]

Here is my problem, with that. I'm reasonably sure they didn't go into the draft targeting Love. They liked his value for how the board fell and made a move. When is Rodgers supposed to get a heads up? Virtually as it's happening? If you tell him ahead of time and it doesn't end up happening, we might be in virtually the same position because he thinks you are looking for his replacement.

[squire12]

8 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

I’m out-numbered on this issue and not able to effectively articulate my logic here - no fault of anyone’s.  I’ll just say I’m glad Gute is reviewing his steps on this and took the bold step of taking on some of the responsibility for strife.  I admire this quality and think he will learn and grow from this.

Rodgers is a difficult human being to predict, know, understand, and most importantly, get close to.  I’m seeing that a bit more clearly now.

@Sasquatch

I appreciate your opinion on this.   You have stated things well.  

This is a sticky situation and I don't think parallels well to many other businesses.  

Within professional sports, typically a high profile employee (Rodgers) makes multiple times more in salary than those above him (MLF, Gutekunst, Murphy).   That is just not the case in other business.   

[squire12]

30 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

I want to address this specific question, because it’s a very good one.

I’m not an expert manager within my organization - average by most standards - but I’ve come to realize some things through the years.  The more I know about the person I’m managing, and the more I know about how they feel and what makes them tick, the better.  I need an advantage.  To get this, I need to earn their trust - they need to trust me enough to come to me when they’re upset, without worrying about the repercussions of coming to me.  I can nip a lot of situations in the bud before they fester if I’m in the know.

Gute was caught off guard - seemingly the entire organization was.  That, or they knew these decisions would pi$$ AR off and just miscalculated how bad the situation would become.  Had someone - any of the coaches on staff, the ball boy, whoever - had fostered a close enough relationship with Rodgers that they could sense this coming, this intel could’ve been brought forward and steps may have been taken to interecede before it reached this point.

 

15 minutes ago, squire12 said:

You mean the player that has shut out his family?

 

Maybe the Gutekunst decided that the best decision given what GB knew how Rodgers was from a personality perspective felt that keeping the possibility of Love being picked was the best decision for the GB Packers in the short and long run.   Could there be bumps in that decision, for sure.  Just like informing Rodgers would not ensure that no bumps would be felt.  

 

 

12 minutes ago, cannondale said:

This needs to stop being a thing

Why?   You think Rodgers rift with his family has no influence on the ability of someone within the front office to gain his trust in order to better find out how to manage this type of situation before it came to this?

[squire12]

13 minutes ago, spilltray said:

Here is my problem, with that. I'm reasonably sure they didn't go into the draft targeting Love. They liked his value for how the board fell and made a move. When is Rodgers supposed to get a heads up? Virtually as it's happening? If you tell him ahead of time and it doesn't end up happening, we might be in virtually the same position because he thinks you are looking for his replacement.

It was floated out pre draft that GB might be looking at a QB.  

Fully agree on the timing of the picks in the mid 20s, GB looks to make a move up for someone --- might have been Love only, might have been some other player as well--- all happens in a short span of time.  

Maybe that is why MN had their pick skipped that time a dozen or so years ago.....they were consulting with a key player and he was on the ****ter and couldn't reply back quick enough!!!!!

[cannondale]

1 minute ago, squire12 said:

 

 

Why?   You think Rodgers rift with his family has no influence on the ability of someone within the front office to gain his trust in order to better find out how to manage this type of situation before it came to this?

His family had a hand in that.

[squire12]

5 minutes ago, cannondale said:

His family had a hand in that.

sure they did.  never said or implied that was not a 2 way street

Just seems like gaining the trust of someone that has shut out their family is not as easy as was being presented

[Toddfather]

2 hours ago, Kampfgeist said:

Interesting perspective.   I disagree entirely with the premise that GB's ownership structure is somehow to blame.    GB is far from the only NFL franchise to have to manage the ego of a player or to have a public squabble with one of their stars.   This reads like GB is uniquely in this situation because they don't have a traditional ownership structure - completely disregarding every other NFL franchise that has a traditional ownership structure.   Or the non-NFL professional franchises that all have to deal with the same issues (Harden, Durant, James, every Scott Boras client in baseball).  Leave the bubble and one sees we are far from the only franchise to have a public spat with a player.     

Drew Brees, Carson Palmer, Le'Veon Bell, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Yannick Ngakoue just some names that immediately come to mind.    This list would be VERY extensive if researching names of players that threatened to leave their team, threatened to avoid all offseason activities, threatened to never play another down felt underappreciated etc..

Funny enough, all of these players play for teams with traditional ownership groups and some of the most influential owners in football.    Maybe when Jerry Jones or one of the Rooney's get some more experience as owners this type of thing won't happen in their franchise though

Aaron Rodgers wants a new contract that guarantees he can leave GB on his own terms and pays him at the top of the pay scale.   He doesn't want to see the Cousins of the world or the Prescott's of the world making more money than him or playing with greater guarantees.  Absent that, things get messy and ownership structure is entirely irrelevant.   Gutey is stuck acquiescing to that, giving a 38 yr old (and by my understanding, aging every year) player all the leverage and potentially hamstringing the franchise in the future or making a player play under a contract which gives the franchise more leverage.   Rock--->Hard Place -- Experience just tells you they are both sh7^%y places to lay down

 

 

 

I get your point, but I still 100% do not think this is about money. Nothing that Aaron has said, especially over the last year has been about money. It's about respect, and not being a lame duck. This has built up over a long time, and it finally hit it's tipping point. As for the ownership angle I brought up. It is a big deal. Green Bay is run like a business. A successful business at that, but you can be a successful business and be clueless on how to communicate with your employees. Green Bay doesn't have the one guy that will say, **** it, lets go all in. We have a HOF qb and are knocking on the door of a super bowl. Lets go all in. Nope, they see the potential to groom the next QB. There is nothing wrong with that. I also do believe they wanted to get a WR, but the board didn't go that way. However you have to understand Green Bay wants it both ways, and that just was never going to happen. Add in the fact AR feels disrespected, sees all these changes and never is informed of the plan. It's a powder keg. I don't want an owner, and I don't hate how the Packers do things. I just meant IMO if we had an owner... Love is never selected. Jordy probably is here another year. Kumerow isn't cut. Van pelt isn't fired. All these things could of been communicated better. I don't think 12 wants to run the team. Just as a HOF goat and one of the best to ever play the game... He wants to be part of the team. Whether people agree with that logic or not, that doesn't change the fact that's the reality of this situation. Aaron is just an employee where as in a lot of other franchises... I don't think thats the case. Once again, these are just my opinions. 

[fistfullofbeer]

6 minutes ago, Toddfather said:

I get your point, but I still 100% do not think this is about money. Nothing that Aaron has said, especially over the last year has been about money. It's about respect, and not being a lame duck. This has built up over a long time, and it finally hit it's tipping point. As for the ownership angle I brought up. It is a big deal. Green Bay is run like a business. A successful business at that, but you can be a successful business and be clueless on how to communicate with your employees. Green Bay doesn't have the one guy that will say, **** it, lets go all in. We have a HOF qb and are knocking on the door of a super bowl. Lets go all in. Nope, they see the potential to groom the next QB. There is nothing wrong with that. I also do believe they wanted to get a WR, but the board didn't go that way. However you have to understand Green Bay wants it both ways, and that just was never going to happen. Add in the fact AR feels disrespected, sees all these changes and never is informed of the plan. It's a powder keg. I don't want an owner, and I don't hate how the Packers do things. I just meant IMO if we had an owner... Love is never selected. Jordy probably is here another year. Kumerow isn't cut. Van pelt isn't fired. All these things could of been communicated better. I don't think 12 wants to run the team. Just as a HOF goat and one of the best to ever play the game... He wants to be part of the team. Whether people agree with that logic or not, that doesn't change the fact that's the reality of this situation. Aaron is just an employee where as in a lot of other franchises... I don't think thats the case. Once again, these are just my opinions. 

Lot of good points here.

And while I don't agree with how Rodgers is acting, I certainly understand where he is coming from. It has been a long time coming.

Also, I definitely think not having a single entity (owner) makes things a lot more challenging for management.

[Green19]

15 minutes ago, Toddfather said:

I get your point, but I still 100% do not think this is about money. Nothing that Aaron has said, especially over the last year has been about money. It's about respect, and not being a lame duck. This has built up over a long time, and it finally hit it's tipping point. As for the ownership angle I brought up. It is a big deal. Green Bay is run like a business. A successful business at that, but you can be a successful business and be clueless on how to communicate with your employees. Green Bay doesn't have the one guy that will say, **** it, lets go all in. We have a HOF qb and are knocking on the door of a super bowl. Lets go all in. Nope, they see the potential to groom the next QB. There is nothing wrong with that. I also do believe they wanted to get a WR, but the board didn't go that way. However you have to understand Green Bay wants it both ways, and that just was never going to happen. Add in the fact AR feels disrespected, sees all these changes and never is informed of the plan. It's a powder keg. I don't want an owner, and I don't hate how the Packers do things. I just meant IMO if we had an owner... Love is never selected. Jordy probably is here another year. Kumerow isn't cut. Van pelt isn't fired. All these things could of been communicated better. I don't think 12 wants to run the team. Just as a HOF goat and one of the best to ever play the game... He wants to be part of the team. Whether people agree with that logic or not, that doesn't change the fact that's the reality of this situation. Aaron is just an employee where as in a lot of other franchises... I don't think thats the case. Once again, these are just my opinions. 

I don’t think you’re wrong in your assessment of the situation at all. Although I do tend to think money solves this because with money and term they would be committing to Rodgers in a way that would get rid of all this build in flexibility the team has.

To the greater point the person that holds the most responsible in this situation is Mark Murphy. He is supposed to be the “owner”, in how his role is setup. He should be the one in the draft room saying “hey, looks like love is going to be the pick... Brian you need to call and let Aaron know the thinking.” I mean the Brady had Kraft that he could go to and did to get rid of Jimmy G.

Murphy needed/needs to be that guy. Not saying he can’t ultimately be the one that sided with Brian... but I think it’s more on him to be the middle man between Brian and Aaron.