2022 NFL Draft Thread

[MacReady]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

Kenny Clark has at least 2-3 games a year too, but he's only referring to splashy plays.

I mean, it’s not even splashy plays. I’m mostly on the whole forced turnovers thing. I know I’m the forum weirdo or whatever, and I know this isn’t realistic, but the defense needs someone who forces turnovers by just willing it. Jaire is that person. Taking it upon himself to blitz Kirk Cousins and getting that sack safety, then the time he literally took the ball from a tight end… Those are the plays I’m referring to.

With Jaire, it’s easy for an offense to avoid that. He plays mostly one spot, so an offense just avoids that.

Gary is perfectly capable of this too. I’ve seen it. But I’ve also seen times where he’s been quick enough for a sack, but the pass defense hadn’t covered well enough.

Add a defensive back who plays multiple positions or even an ILB who you have to worry about and not just pressure from one side or coverage from one side I think is what the defense needs.

It’s hard for me to describe because it’s so hard to find. Charles Woodson had it. Nick Collins had it. Clay Matthews had it. Minkah Fitzpatrick has it.

Okay, so an EDGE who can be a legitimate concern in pass coverage could have it. I don’t see that out of Gary. I see him as a single element rusher. He’s not the type who would see a screen, break off his rush, step in front of it and pick it off. He’s not the type who would have a knack for going for the QBs arm and stripping it rather than just getting the sack.

I didn't watch enough of Campbell to know if he's got it. I think Rasul Douglas has that element, but he's not good enough outside that element to be what I'm talking about.

I think we've got a team full of basic elite, not elite plus.

Charles Woodson was an elite plus. Minkah Fitzpatrick is that. Micah Parsons is that.

I don't even think Nick Bosa is that Elite Plus type player.

And the plays you're talking about from Clark and Gary, yeah. They have those plays. They have those BIG moments, but they're expected big moments. Clark will get a big sack at a key moment, but it's all manageable plays. So he got the sack in a 5 point game with 3 minutes left. Now it's on the offense to seal it.

If Rodgers is leaving, we can't rely on offense. We need a Finisher on defense. Game on the line, tight game, 1-5 points will determine a win or a loss. We need someone who gets the strip sack and recovery, not the sack and the punt, pinning our offense at the 8 and leaving just a stop for that defense for them to be right back where they were before the sack.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Outpost31

[{Family Ghost}]

4 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

I mean, it’s not even splashy plays. I’m mostly on the whole forced turnovers thing. I know I’m the forum weirdo or whatever, and I know this isn’t realistic, but the defense needs someone who forces turnovers by just willing it. Jaire is that person. Taking it upon himself to blitz Kirk Cousins and getting that sack safety, then the time he literally took the ball from a tight end… Those are the plays I’m referring to.

With Jaire, it’s easy for an offense to avoid that. He plays mostly one spot, so an offense just avoids that.

Gary is perfectly capable of this too. I’ve seen it. But I’ve also seen times where he’s been quick enough for a sack, but the pass defense hadn’t covered well enough.

Add a defensive back who plays multiple positions or even an ILB who you have to worry about and not just pressure from one side or coverage from one side I think is what the defense needs.

It’s hard for me to describe because it’s so hard to find. Charles Woodson had it. Nick Collins had it. Clay Matthews had it. Minkah Fitzpatrick has it.

Okay, so an EDGE who can be a legitimate concern in pass coverage could have it. I don’t see that out of Gary. I see him as a single element rusher. He’s not the type who would see a screen, break off his rush, step in front of it and pick it off. He’s not the type who would have a knack for going for the QBs arm and stripping it rather than just getting the sack.

I didn't watch enough of Campbell to know if he's got it. I think Rasul Douglas has that element, but he's not good enough outside that element to be what I'm talking about.

I think we've got a team full of basic elite, not elite plus.

Charles Woodson was an elite plus. Minkah Fitzpatrick is that. Micah Parsons is that.

I don't even think Nick Bosa is that Elite Plus type player.

I was on the record as wanting to deal for Minkah ... Packers should have been all over that at the time.

[MacReady]

Just now, {Family Ghost} said:

I was on the record as wanting to deal for Minkah ... Packers should have been all over that at the time.

No kidding. We're back to back Super Bowl winners if we made that deal.

Minkah is Elite Plus.

This is why I want that Notre Dame I think safety. If we do trade Rodgers, that's who we need. I know we've drafted like a billion defensive backs in the first round, and I'm more than happy with Stokes and what he's going to be. He's going to be our Tramon Williams, and I think he's going to have a fantastic career, but he's a piece. A wildly important piece, but he's not THE piece, and Jaire can't be as we use him.

We either need to turn Jaire into that player, or we need to get that player.

The Packers will not win a Super Bowl without that Elite Plus defensive player. Not with Love, and not with Rodgers.

[Packerraymond]

25 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

I mean, it’s not even splashy plays. I’m mostly on the whole forced turnovers thing. I know I’m the forum weirdo or whatever, and I know this isn’t realistic, but the defense needs someone who forces turnovers by just willing it. Jaire is that person. Taking it upon himself to blitz Kirk Cousins and getting that sack safety, then the time he literally took the ball from a tight end… Those are the plays I’m referring to.

With Jaire, it’s easy for an offense to avoid that. He plays mostly one spot, so an offense just avoids that.

Gary is perfectly capable of this too. I’ve seen it. But I’ve also seen times where he’s been quick enough for a sack, but the pass defense hadn’t covered well enough.

Add a defensive back who plays multiple positions or even an ILB who you have to worry about and not just pressure from one side or coverage from one side I think is what the defense needs.

It’s hard for me to describe because it’s so hard to find. Charles Woodson had it. Nick Collins had it. Clay Matthews had it. Minkah Fitzpatrick has it.

Okay, so an EDGE who can be a legitimate concern in pass coverage could have it. I don’t see that out of Gary. I see him as a single element rusher. He’s not the type who would see a screen, break off his rush, step in front of it and pick it off. He’s not the type who would have a knack for going for the QBs arm and stripping it rather than just getting the sack.

I didn't watch enough of Campbell to know if he's got it. I think Rasul Douglas has that element, but he's not good enough outside that element to be what I'm talking about.

I think we've got a team full of basic elite, not elite plus.

Charles Woodson was an elite plus. Minkah Fitzpatrick is that. Micah Parsons is that.

I don't even think Nick Bosa is that Elite Plus type player.

And the plays you're talking about from Clark and Gary, yeah. They have those plays. They have those BIG moments, but they're expected big moments. Clark will get a big sack at a key moment, but it's all manageable plays. So he got the sack in a 5 point game with 3 minutes left. Now it's on the offense to seal it.

If Rodgers is leaving, we can't rely on offense. We need a Finisher on defense. Game on the line, tight game, 1-5 points will determine a win or a loss. We need someone who gets the strip sack and recovery, not the sack and the punt, pinning our offense at the 8 and leaving just a stop for that defense for them to be right back where they were before the sack.

If we play sound defense and get after the QB, the splash plays come. Very few QBs are Rodgers and can resist taking a chance for an entire game.

Look at Mahomes in OT. Bengals had been rushing 4 and dropping everyone, allowing nothing deep, but with the game on the line, he couldn't help himself.

We do need to get more creative with Jaire, but that can only happen if we bring back Douglas.

[MacReady]

51 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

If we play sound defense and get after the QB, the splash plays come. Very few QBs are Rodgers and can resist taking a chance for an entire game.

Look at Mahomes in OT. Bengals had been rushing 4 and dropping everyone, allowing nothing deep, but with the game on the line, he couldn't help himself.

We do need to get more creative with Jaire, but that can only happen if we bring back Douglas.

My way is a lot easier. No it’s not, but it’s more fun.

[AlexGreen#20]

On 2/1/2022 at 12:49 PM, Outpost31 said:

I mean, it’s not even splashy plays. I’m mostly on the whole forced turnovers thing. I know I’m the forum weirdo or whatever, and I know this isn’t realistic, but the defense needs someone who forces turnovers by just willing it. Jaire is that person. Taking it upon himself to blitz Kirk Cousins and getting that sack safety, then the time he literally took the ball from a tight end… Those are the plays I’m referring to.

With Jaire, it’s easy for an offense to avoid that. He plays mostly one spot, so an offense just avoids that.

Gary is perfectly capable of this too. I’ve seen it. But I’ve also seen times where he’s been quick enough for a sack, but the pass defense hadn’t covered well enough.

Add a defensive back who plays multiple positions or even an ILB who you have to worry about and not just pressure from one side or coverage from one side I think is what the defense needs.

It’s hard for me to describe because it’s so hard to find. Charles Woodson had it. Nick Collins had it. Clay Matthews had it. Minkah Fitzpatrick has it.

Okay, so an EDGE who can be a legitimate concern in pass coverage could have it. I don’t see that out of Gary. I see him as a single element rusher. He’s not the type who would see a screen, break off his rush, step in front of it and pick it off. He’s not the type who would have a knack for going for the QBs arm and stripping it rather than just getting the sack.

I didn't watch enough of Campbell to know if he's got it. I think Rasul Douglas has that element, but he's not good enough outside that element to be what I'm talking about.

I think we've got a team full of basic elite, not elite plus.

Charles Woodson was an elite plus. Minkah Fitzpatrick is that. Micah Parsons is that.

I don't even think Nick Bosa is that Elite Plus type player.

And the plays you're talking about from Clark and Gary, yeah. They have those plays. They have those BIG moments, but they're expected big moments. Clark will get a big sack at a key moment, but it's all manageable plays. So he got the sack in a 5 point game with 3 minutes left. Now it's on the offense to seal it.

If Rodgers is leaving, we can't rely on offense. We need a Finisher on defense. Game on the line, tight game, 1-5 points will determine a win or a loss. We need someone who gets the strip sack and recovery, not the sack and the punt, pinning our offense at the 8 and leaving just a stop for that defense for them to be right back where they were before the sack.

Nick Collins had 21 INTs in 7 seasons. Darnell Savage has more INTs/season than Nick Collins.

Clay Matthews had 5 career Fumble Recoveries, and only 2 outside of his rookie year. He had 6 career interceptions. He averaged 1 TO per year of his career. 

[MacReady]

31 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Nick Collins had 21 INTs in 7 seasons. Darnell Savage has more INTs/season than Nick Collins.

Clay Matthews had 5 career Fumble Recoveries, and only 2 outside of his rookie year. He had 6 career interceptions. He averaged 1 TO per year of his career. 

Do you think Savage is capable of a 7 INT, 3 TD season? I’m legitimately asking because I definitely haven’t given up hope on Savage.

[Norm]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Nick Collins had 21 INTs in 7 seasons. Darnell Savage has more INTs/season than Nick Collins.

Clay Matthews had 5 career Fumble Recoveries, and only 2 outside of his rookie year. He had 6 career interceptions. He averaged 1 TO per year of his career. 

No no no. No realities. No real stats. Only Outposts feelings and nostalgia matter. 

[Norm]

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

Do you think Savage is capable of a 7 INT, 3 TD season? I’m legitimately asking because I definitely haven’t given up hope on Savage.

I will die before I see someone score 3 TDs on defense again. But you know there's so much more to it than that. 

[StartBarr]

Speaking of Darnell Savage, anyone care to chime in on their opinion / current evaluation of him? Love him as a talent, was very excited about him heading into this season…but I was disappointed by what I saw.
 

Seems like his football instincts are lacking, seems like he is responsible for a costly assignment error almost once a game. His physical gifts are exceptional but his read/reaction ability is bad enough where it is a net negative overall. Hopefully he makes a big jump this coming season like I anticipated in 2021-22…

 

I’ve been grabbing a safety in mock simulator drafts in Rounds 3-5 for these reasons… Would love to hear some others chime in on this and what his future may look like

[MacReady]

1 hour ago, Norm said:

I will die before I see someone score 3 TDs on defense again. But you know there's so much more to it than that. 

I’m just so over it. I’m tempted to rewatch the entire 2010 season, maybe even 2011 to see them again.

[Sandy]

39 minutes ago, StartBarr said:

Speaking of Darnell Savage, anyone care to chime in on their opinion / current evaluation of him? Love him as a talent, was very excited about him heading into this season…but I was disappointed by what I saw.
 

Seems like his football instincts are lacking, seems like he is responsible for a costly assignment error almost once a game. His physical gifts are exceptional but his read/reaction ability is bad enough where it is a net negative overall. Hopefully he makes a big jump this coming season like I anticipated in 2021-22…

 

I’ve been grabbing a safety in mock simulator drafts in Rounds 3-5 for these reasons… Would love to hear some others chime in on this and what his future may look like

I was disappointed too. I don't think he gets a 5th year offer. I think he's an above average NFL starter and will be in playoff games starting for other franchises down the road, but he's not a star.  If we keep Rodgers and dive into cap hell for the next few seasons, he won't be worth it to re-sign. If we trade Rodgers and rebuild then it wouldn't make sense to keep someone who's just a guy. 

[incognito_man]

On 2/1/2022 at 11:49 AM, Outpost31 said:

I mean, it’s not even splashy plays. I’m mostly on the whole forced turnovers thing. I know I’m the forum weirdo or whatever, and I know this isn’t realistic, but the defense needs someone who forces turnovers by just willing it. Jaire is that person. Taking it upon himself to blitz Kirk Cousins and getting that sack safety, then the time he literally took the ball from a tight end… Those are the plays I’m referring to.

With Jaire, it’s easy for an offense to avoid that. He plays mostly one spot, so an offense just avoids that.

Gary is perfectly capable of this too. I’ve seen it. But I’ve also seen times where he’s been quick enough for a sack, but the pass defense hadn’t covered well enough.

Add a defensive back who plays multiple positions or even an ILB who you have to worry about and not just pressure from one side or coverage from one side I think is what the defense needs.

It’s hard for me to describe because it’s so hard to find. Charles Woodson had it. Nick Collins had it. Clay Matthews had it. Minkah Fitzpatrick has it.

Okay, so an EDGE who can be a legitimate concern in pass coverage could have it. I don’t see that out of Gary. I see him as a single element rusher. He’s not the type who would see a screen, break off his rush, step in front of it and pick it off. He’s not the type who would have a knack for going for the QBs arm and stripping it rather than just getting the sack.

I didn't watch enough of Campbell to know if he's got it. I think Rasul Douglas has that element, but he's not good enough outside that element to be what I'm talking about.

I think we've got a team full of basic elite, not elite plus.

Charles Woodson was an elite plus. Minkah Fitzpatrick is that. Micah Parsons is that.

I don't even think Nick Bosa is that Elite Plus type player.

And the plays you're talking about from Clark and Gary, yeah. They have those plays. They have those BIG moments, but they're expected big moments. Clark will get a big sack at a key moment, but it's all manageable plays. So he got the sack in a 5 point game with 3 minutes left. Now it's on the offense to seal it.

If Rodgers is leaving, we can't rely on offense. We need a Finisher on defense. Game on the line, tight game, 1-5 points will determine a win or a loss. We need someone who gets the strip sack and recovery, not the sack and the punt, pinning our offense at the 8 and leaving just a stop for that defense for them to be right back where they were before the sack.

Tyrann Mathieu in college had it. Just doesn't have an NFL body. But that "it" is the most obvious thing on "tape" when a guys has it.

I want more of them, too. But they are rare. 

[MacReady]

6 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Tyrann Mathieu in college had it. Just doesn't have an NFL body. But that "it" is the most obvious thing on "tape" when a guys has it.

I want more of them, too. But they are rare. 

I think there's a misconception on Mathieu that he's always injured. He's missed one game in the past five seasons. But yes, Mathieu is a prime example of what I'm talking about. He left the Bills game late and it was almost like when he left, the Bills did whatever they wanted. Fourth down might as well have been first down.

And that might be why Jaire isn't exactly feared by quarterbacks. We're not remotely creative with him. I know Jaire takes risks, like that's documented, but there are only so many risks you can take when quarterbacks generally ignore your side of the field.

This, I think, is why the slot corner position is among the most underrated. There's so much more freedom to improvise when you're playing slot corner, especially in zone.

Think back to all the biggest plays you can remember and it was someone taking a risk. Remember that really big Micah Hyde interception against the Cowboys in the playoffs? I want to say it was Shields who talked about that after and Shields told Hyde, "Go get it." They had a feeling it was going to be one of those quick screens, and the two of them communicated that almost nonverbally.

Rasul Douglas talked about that a couple times this year. Where he said there are moments he chooses to take risks, he communicates that intention to his safeties, and it's paid off big.

There's also a lot to be said about players being given the freedom to take those chances. There's a chance it was just my perception, but when Jaire talked about that sack safety on Cousins, it was almost like there was derision in his voice. I forget what he said, but he said something like the play call was dumb because he was supposed to be covering a flat zone when there was nobody in his area, and so he decided to blitz before the play actually started.

This is why I hate - HATE - defenses designed around covering deep. Playing the sticks, playing situational defense. That's the quickest way to have a defense literally nobody is intimidated by. The NFL is so much about tempo offense that if you let a team get into any sort of rhythm, it doesn't matter if you don't allow a single pass over ten yards all season.

The problem is you can't really play that aggressive defense if you don't have players with the speed and intelligence to play it.

[Brit Pack]

I have 'it' and it's catching...