offbyone Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, lavar703 said: What can you win with Carr? Why do teams even make these kinds of trades when the guy they’re trading for has clearly hit his ceiling and will only take you so far? I like Derrek Carr but he’s Andy Dalton-esque. I’d rather take my chances in the draft to see if we can strike gold. If you will only accept a Rodgers/Brady/Wilson level result as a franchise qb you are going to be looking a long time unless you get real real lucky. He will likely never be a top 5 qb, but Carr is a franchise qb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 40 minutes ago, offbyone said: If you will only accept a Rodgers/Brady/Wilson level result as a franchise qb you are going to be looking a long time unless you get real real lucky. He will likely never be a top 5 qb, but Carr is a franchise qb. @lavar703’s position is why trade assets for Carr to be mediocre or slightly above when you can use your top 10 draft pick to take a QB, develop them and hopefully have them as a good to great starter for 15-20 years? Drafting a QB is better than giving up multiple picks to finish .500 or slightly above for the next 5-10 years. Edited October 21, 2021 by turtle28 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 47 minutes ago, offbyone said: If you will only accept a Rodgers/Brady/Wilson level result as a franchise qb you are going to be looking a long time unless you get real real lucky. He will likely never be a top 5 qb, but Carr is a franchise qb. I’d rather take a chance on Tua (not at all my first option) or draft a Corral, Strong, Howell, Willis etc. At least there’s a shroud of mystery there and the potential for greatness hasn’t completely eroded. Carr is a average/good QB who you’ll have to pay buttload of money. I’d rather take my chances on the young guys instead of someone who’s most likely not getting you to the super bowl and will cost draft choices and tons of money. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, lavar703 said: I’d rather take a chance on Tua (not at all my first option) or draft a Corral, Strong, Howell, Willis etc. At least there’s a shroud of mystery there and the potential for greatness hasn’t completely eroded. Carr is a average/good QB who you’ll have to pay buttload of money. I’d rather take my chances on the young guys instead of someone who’s most likely not getting you to the super bowl and will cost draft choices and tons of money. I didn’t even think about the $ thing, but that’s huge too. If any QB we draft works out well usually know that, have them as good in their 2nd year as a starter - at worst 3rd - so we’ll have a few years of them being cheap before we have to start paying them $20m plus a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 8 hours ago, turtle28 said: For me, I’m tired of seeing a choir boy team go 7-9 every year or worse which has been the case for most of the last 28 years. The teams we had in the George Allen & Joe Gibbs 1.0 era certainly weren’t choir boys but we didn’t care back then for example when l Dexter was high on cocaine all the time bc he was the best pass rusher we had in team history. I'm not asking for a choir boy, but I think asking for someone who does not think it is okay is to push himself on women isn't that high of a bar to cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, Woz said: I'm not asking for a choir boy, but I think asking for someone who does not think it is okay is to push himself on women isn't that high of a bar to cross. The way I look at it is he’s going to play in the league again someday, whether it’s this year after he’s traded or most likely next year. I’d like it to be here. Edited October 21, 2021 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, lavar703 said: I’d rather take a chance on Tua (not at all my first option) or draft a Corral, Strong, Howell, Willis etc. At least there’s a shroud of mystery there and the potential for greatness hasn’t completely eroded. Carr is a average/good QB who you’ll have to pay buttload of money. I’d rather take my chances on the young guys instead of someone who’s most likely not getting you to the super bowl and will cost draft choices and tons of money. Tua yuck. He has already shown to be average and can't stay healthy. I obviously have a higher opinion of Carr, but even if you just think he is a good qb, you know as well as anyone else that the likelihood of Corral, Strong, Howell or Willis being better is very slim. And the likelihood of that happening soon is even slimmer. As far as the money goes, just add up RG Scherff + Fitzpatrick and that is his salary. Maybe it would be good if this team was a little strapped. Maybe we wouldn't throw cap space around on injured guards like it doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, offbyone said: Tua yuck. He has already shown to be average and can't stay healthy. I obviously have a higher opinion of Carr, but even if you just think he is a good qb, you know as well as anyone else that the likelihood of Corral, Strong, Howell or Willis being better is very slim. And the likelihood of that happening soon is even slimmer. As far as the money goes, just add up RG Scherff + Fitzpatrick and that is his salary. Maybe it would be good if this team was a little strapped. Maybe we wouldn't throw cap space around on injured guards like it doesn't matter. While the likelihood is very slim there’s still a chance that it could happen. Carr is what he is. It’s like playing the lottery bro. You can’t win if you don’t play lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, lavar703 said: While the likelihood is very slim there’s still a chance that it could happen. Carr is what he is. It’s like playing the lottery bro. You can’t win if you don’t play lol haha. I can't argue with that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 This is just depressing to read. This team just has no direction under this crew. Just unbelievable. Mariota? Mitch Trubisky? Lol. Geez oh man. Embarrassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, lavar703 said: This is just depressing to read. This team just has no direction under this crew. Just unbelievable. Mariota? Mitch Trubisky? Lol. Geez oh man. Embarrassing. Just bc at this moment they’re not “enamored” with any of the QB prospects in the draft doesn’t mean they won’t take one by the time next April rolls around. Edited October 21, 2021 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 7 hours ago, turtle28 said: Just bc at this moment they’re not “enamored” with any of the QB prospects in the draft doesn’t mean they won’t take one by the time next April rolls around. It doesn’t mean they won’t be. But it also doesn’t mean they should be by that time unless there is someone who separates. There are 3 guys with real traits. Howell has traits but he can not help himself from the turn over worthy plays. Not a TO but putting the ball into bad spots honestly this locker room needs to wake up!!! And they need to wake up. Every game Taylor has played this defense has given up 350 plus yards on defense. And they BELIEVE in him. So if this defense plays like this for a guy they believe in what good is a rookie gonna do while trying to earn the rosters trust. This team needs to open their eyes and look into the mirror because it doesn’t matter who our QB is. If this group of players can’t preform them we don’t need a QB we need to get players that will do their job and take it personal not executing. There’s no leadership on the field outside of Terry Gibson and Chase. And none of them are getting guys to match their effort and that is something this or a new staff needs to fix. We have too many guys cashing checks instead of out there trying to play with winning level effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, ripsean21 said: It doesn’t mean they won’t be. But it also doesn’t mean they should be by that time unless there is someone who separates. There are 3 guys with real traits. Howell has traits but he can not help himself from the turn over worthy plays. Not a TO but putting the ball into bad spots honestly this locker room needs to wake up!!! And they need to wake up. Every game Taylor has played this defense has given up 350 plus yards on defense. And they BELIEVE in him. So if this defense plays like this for a guy they believe in what good is a rookie gonna do while trying to earn the rosters trust. This team needs to open their eyes and look into the mirror because it doesn’t matter who our QB is. If this group of players can’t preform them we don’t need a QB we need to get players that will do their job and take it personal not executing. There’s no leadership on the field outside of Terry Gibson and Chase. And none of them are getting guys to match their effort and that is something this or a new staff needs to fix. We have too many guys cashing checks instead of out there trying to play with winning level effort. No leadership outside of Terry, Gibby & Chase? It’s impossible to know that w/o being in the locker room. I’d disagree with that anyways, I think Jon Allen is a leader and even more of a leader than Chase on that DL & on the D. What shouldn’t be lost on people who thought that we’d have a top 5 D despite this schedule this year, is that the D is young outside of our starting corners, Collins & McCain. The rest of our starters on D are all under 26. What’s sad is that our young DBs are playing better than the vets but Del Rio won’t play the youth more. What’s also sad is now they realize Landon should be playing like a LB? WTF!! He looks lost out there bc they’re trying to change his position mid-season. Everyone knew he shouldn’t be playing safety anymore this February/March, bc Curl is better in coverage and just about the same as a run defender. It’s really kills me that they didn’t start the Collins to WLB move in April/May. They waited too long and it may have cost us some games bc if Collins had been acclimated to the WLB position for the season opener, he would’ve been a better option that Bostic & he’d have the position down by now which would’ve made our back 7 better IMO. The way I view that is this D should get better as the years go on too and of course we’ll upgrade positions. Also, even if our defense is bad, it still does matter who our QB is. I get the sentiment that with this current defense even if we had Aaron Rodgers we’d probably be only 3-3 or at best 4-2 but, it definitely matters who our QB is. We have to get better at the position, they know Taylor is limited, they know more about him in that way than us fans. They need to either trade for a QB next off-season or preferably draft one, they can’t go into the season with the same 3 and expect that will satisfy Snyder w/o Fitz, Heinicke or Allen leading us to the playoffs which seems unlikely at this point even if we had a top 10 D - which was always unlikely for me, but some people drank the Fitz Kool-Aid, just like they did with Case Keenum in 2019. Also, I really don’t think this D is going to be awful forever. I’m actually still in belief that they’ll turn it around the second half of the year and start holding teams to around or under 20 ppg and under 300 yards per game, but that will be in part bc our schedule gets easier as does the offenses we face in Nov & Dec after the Bucs & Raiders games, except for us having to play the Cowboys twice. Regardless of all that, this team needs a QB for the future period. For me, it doesn’t have to be a 1st round guy - but I’d like the other QBs besides Corral convince me that they deserve to be taken in the top 15. Even if we don’t take a QB in round 1, we had better take one of the ones in the next group after Corral in the top 10 of round 2 to develop behind whoever our starter is next year. Edited October 21, 2021 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostnote Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 19 hours ago, turtle28 said: Yeah, that’s where I think he’ll end up, mid first round which could be right in our wheelhouse somewhere in the low to mid teens is probably where he and Malik Willis will go, with Matt Corral being the only top 5 QB going to the Texans or the Eagles through a trade up. Don't be surprised if the WFT ends up trading for Watson because they are just that damn stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Ghostnote said: Don't be surprised if the WFT ends up trading for Watson because they are just that damn stupid. I don’t think it’s stupid. Watson’s legal issues will eventually get settled. He’ll probably be suspended the rest of this year - if his legal matters gets settled in Nov, like it could - or the first half of next year and then, when that is done we’ll have a franchise QB. Edited October 21, 2021 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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