lavar703 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 13 hours ago, MikeT14 said: Sometimes you build the team first and then get your QB. It's possible. Is it possible to do so without giving up a ton of draft capital? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 20 minutes ago, lavar703 said: Is it possible to do so without giving up a ton of draft capital? I don't think I follow where you're going with this. Sorry, it's over my head, but the answer is yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 1 hour ago, MikeT14 said: I don't think I follow where you're going with this. Sorry, it's over my head, but the answer is yes. If you build the roster without a QB you’re going to be a middling franchise picking somewhere between 15-25 most likely. So you’ll have to give up quite a bit of draft capital to get the QB you want, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 15 minutes ago, lavar703 said: If you build the roster without a QB you’re going to be a middling franchise picking somewhere between 15-25 most likely. So you’ll have to give up quite a bit of draft capital to get the QB you want, no? Okay, I follow. So the example right now would be the Rams. The team was built so the draft capital was more expendable than others imo. That opportunity has to come up, obviously. But.. still possible. Or, like other teams in the draft, you trade up from your 15-25 range. Again, yes, like you allude to, you give up capital, but... it's more expendable. Do I think we're there? No. But the theory is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) Anything is possible. I would have built the team differently- especially this past offseason- than what Rivera & the Marty’s have done, but just because they don’t have a franchise QB yet, doesn’t mean their plan is doomed and it won’t work. Shanahan didn’t draft who was supposed to be his chance at a franchise QB until year 3 also. Allen, McCloughan, Gruden & Kyle Smith never did find their own franchise QB or good starting QB, they inherited Kirk Cousins from Mike Shanahan and Jay/McVay continued to develop Kirk into a the good starting QB he is today. Then, Allen/Dan didn’t re-sign Kirk and we haven’t been able to fin ld a consistently good QB since except Alex Smith who sadly broke his leg. I’m becoming impatient with Rivera, but there’s still time to get the QB we need and for things to turn around for sure. This league changes a lot from year to year and our fortunes could as well. Edited October 28, 2021 by turtle28 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4209 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 In the latest mock draft on walterfootball.com only one QB went in the top 16. Now I realize it is early but so far this indicates that most of the top QB's in next yr's draft are just mid first rounder's. No need to trade up to get one. So one of these mid first rounder should fall right into our laps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 On 10/25/2021 at 7:41 PM, Thaiphoon said: http://www.tankathon.com/nfl I go by "if it happens today". I can see the Lions or Houston taking a QB. From there it gets murkier. Are the Giants committed to Daniel Jones? If not, they could trade up and trade both their firsts for 1.1 But would the Lions want to drop to 1.7 just to pick up 1.15 (to go with their other first rounder in 1.28)? But that brings up another point. If they do that they could use 1.7 and 1.15 to restock (or trade up) and then use 1.28 to trade down or trade out and pick up a first in 2023 in a draft that might be a bit better for QBs. This way they retain Goff one more year but improve the team and still have leverage to move up in 2023 if Goff craps the bed for two years straight. Philthy is also an enigma. How committed to Hurts will they be staring Willis in the face? Especially given that they could grab him and still use two more Top 10 picks to restock the team. They aren't adverse to trading QBs away for picks. So why not now? Given that they are looking like they are going to have three top ten picks, they'll look to QB as well as deal with edge rusher and tackle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, MikeT14 said: Okay, I follow. So the example right now would be the Rams. The team was built so the draft capital was more expendable than others imo. That opportunity has to come up, obviously. But.. still possible. Or, like other teams in the draft, you trade up from your 15-25 range. Again, yes, like you allude to, you give up capital, but... it's more expendable. Do I think we're there? No. But the theory is. It’s little trickier than that, though, because of who we are. On talent, we should be a genuine contender for guys like Rodgers and Wilson. Our OL is playing well (and deep, and well-coached). Our weapons group isn’t spectacular, but at full health you’ve got McLaurin, Samuel, Thomas, Gibson, and McKissic — all of whom are proven contributors. Add a quality veteran WR2/3 and you really aren’t going to beat that offensive core with most teams. And in theory, you’ve gotta assume a defense with this talent level is going to figure out the 3rd down issues at some point. But despite the player personnel we have in place, we are not a genuine contender for these guys. And it’s hard to see how we would ever become one in the near future. The Rams had a lot to offer such a QB, and we’ve heard from various sources that that’s why the Lions did the deal with them instead of us, because Stafford wanted to go there and not here. First of all, they’re in LA, which is appealing for weather and lifestyle reasons to most players. They have a brand new castle of a stadium, which may not mean that much, but when you compare it to FedEx...? They have a young, offensive-minded coach with a reputation for excellence and creativity, and who these veteran QBs presumably view as a guy who will have more of a “peer” type relationship with them, rather than coaching down on them from above. Compare that to Rivera and Turner. And most importantly, they have some cachet because they’ve actually competed and won in recent years. They went to the Super Bowl with Jared Goff. Our best selling point is we dragged ourselves to 7-9 with Alex Smith (who, by the way, we almost got killed). If the plan is to build a team and hope an elite veteran QB decides he wants to join it, I think we’re barking up the wrong tree. There’s just too much negative baggage here at this point. It would be a bit like expecting a guy like that to have decided to go to Cleveland or Jacksonville or Detroit or Buffalo (pre-Allen). Edited October 29, 2021 by e16bball 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, e16bball said: It’s little trickier than that, though, because of who we are. On talent, we should be a genuine contender for guys like Rodgers and Wilson. Our OL is playing well (and deep, and well-coached). Our weapons group isn’t spectacular, but at full health you’ve got McLaurin, Samuel, Thomas, Gibson, and McKissic — all of whom are proven contributors. Add a quality veteran WR2/3 and you really aren’t going to beat that offensive core with most teams. And in theory, you’ve gotta assume a defense with this talent level is going to figure out the 3rd down issues at some point. But despite the player personnel we have in place, we are not a genuine contender for these guys. And it’s hard to see how we would ever become one in the near future. The Rams had a lot to offer such a QB, and we’ve heard from various sources that that’s why the Lions did the deal with them instead of us, because Stafford wanted to go there and not here. First of all, they’re in LA, which is appealing for weather and lifestyle reasons to most players. They have a brand new castle of a stadium, which may not mean that much, but when you compare it to FedEx...? They have a young, offensive-minded coach with a reputation for excellence and creativity, and who these veteran QBs presumably view as a guy who will have more of a “peer” type relationship with them, rather than coaching down on them from above. Compare that to Rivera and Turner. And most importantly, they have some cachet because they’ve actually competed and won in recent years. They went to the Super Bowl with Jared Goff. Our best selling point is we dragged ourselves to 7-9 with Alex Smith (who, by the way, we almost got killed). If the plan is to build a team and hope an elite veteran QB decides he wants to join it, I think we’re barking up the wrong tree. There’s just too much negative baggage here at this point. It would be a bit like expecting a guy like that to have decided to go to Cleveland or Jacksonville or Detroit or Buffalo (pre-Allen). Great post. I think a little time and a defense playing to its potential could help shift that. It all depends on truly the options. If it is a crazy offseason, and you see Aaron, Russell, and DeShaun (who gets cleared) all available, I think that plays some okay odds (as in not 0%) that we could in fact land one. You're competing with the Panthers, Miami, Philadelphia, New Orleans, Giants, Denver, Pittsburgh, and maybe more (or less). Tough competition, so we'll have to see some facets come together. That said, I still think it's possible. BUT... It also means the other route I spoke of is more likely... do what the Bears and Patriots did this draft... and what we should have done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 @Jeezy Fanatic getting a good scout on Pickett right now. These guys are lighting up the scoreboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezy Fanatic Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 1 hour ago, e16bball said: @Jeezy Fanatic getting a good scout on Pickett right now. These guys are lighting up the scoreboard. Need to wait a few years to take Tyler van Dyke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 So Willis, Strong and Pickett all killing it. Stop telling me there’s no good QBs in this draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTMONK HOF Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 47 minutes ago, lavar703 said: So Willis, Strong and Pickett all killing it. Stop telling me there’s no good QBs in this draft. They all had nice games but… Willis had a strong game against UMass 1-7 record Not a football powerhouse Strong had a nice game against UNLV 0-8 record Not a football powerhouse Pickett had a strong game against unranked Miami 4-4 record. More impressive than the other 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 2 hours ago, ARTMONK HOF said: They all had nice games but… Willis had a strong game against UMass 1-7 record Not a football powerhouse Strong had a nice game against UNLV 0-8 record Not a football powerhouse Pickett had a strong game against unranked Miami 4-4 record. More impressive than the other 2 Willis's chance will be next week against Ole Miss and Matt Corral. Strong has a reasonably tough close of season schedule: vs San Jose State, at San Diego State (this is the big one), vs Air Force, and at Colorado State. Two 0.500 teams and two teams with 6+ wins already, one ranked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 3 hours ago, Jeezy Fanatic said: Need to wait a few years to take Tyler van Dyke Same question for you as it is for me with Armstrong: do you really want him to be drafted by this franchise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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