Bears release T Charles Leno; signed by Washington

[SkippyX]

First, he is a rookie

Second, the QB is a rookie

Third the rookie RT is trying to play LT

 

Either Matt Nagy is smarter than everyone else or Jenkins is a pro RT. 

Good luck!

[Pool]

3 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Took on a $5.1 million dead cap hit to cut a starting quality LT

lmao

I approve of this move 100%

 

Apparently he threatened to quit when he found out they drafted his replacement.

[Superman(DH23)]

4 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Took on a $5.1 million dead cap hit to cut a starting quality LT

lmao

I approve of this move 100%

 

Proof positive of how terrible pff is.  Watch the tape and come tell me that Leno was a top 5 LT.  Dude spent more time picking himself up off the ground, than a pro wrestler at an mma tournament.

[SkippyX]

1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Proof positive of how terrible pff is.  Watch the tape and come tell me that Leno was a top 5 LT.  Dude spent more time picking himself up off the ground, than a pro wrestler at an mma tournament.

Can anyone explain why the Bears line was pretty good run/pass in weeks 1-3 and hot garbage in 4-10 and good again in 12-17?

I can't remember ever seeing this before. You can see it like the 2014 Eagles when they started banged up and jelled by October or when injuries take guys out for the year but the huge dip in the middle is pretty rare.

2020 Bears rushing yards per game 

• 1-3 was about 138
• 4-10 was about 52
• 12-17 was about 144

I get that Tampa, Indy, Rams, and Saints were in the middle but they ran for 41 against the Vikings and then 199 against them 34 days later.

 

I would guess that most of the bad tape on Leno came from weeks 4-10.

[JAF-N72EX]

1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

I would guess

That's one of your problems right here. The 2nd would be associating raw rushing numbers as a way of describing an entire OL.  This is the definition of box score scouting.

 

[JAF-N72EX]

7 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Took on a $5.1 million dead cap hit to cut a starting quality LT

lmao

I approve of this move 100%

 

So much is wrong is here. I Seriously don't even know where to start with this post.  

1)  The Bears saved 9M by cutting him since he was designated as a June 1st cut.

https://overthecap.com/player/charles-leno-jr/3185/

This means they released him now but he won't officially be off the books until June 1st. This is doing him a solid and it works out for both ends. The Bears could wait until after June 1st to cut him and save 9M but that gives Leno even less options to find a new home. The Bears save 9M AND Leno still has time to find plenty of options.

2) The fact people still find PFF credible after all these years is shocking to me, but I digress b/c I'm done trying to explain to people how terrible they are.

 

3)  Last 6 games lol.  This is PFFs obvious attempt to garner views and clicks by using an arbitrary cut-off and you fell for it lol.  What's worse it is that this was probably the best they could up with during their poor attempt at a quick attention grab. 

But nevertheless, lets break this down.

1) They post the "last 6 games" but ignore the other 10?  Funny how they left that out though.  That's an immediate red flag right there.

2) 3 of the defenses the Bears faced during the 6 game stretch all finished the season last in DVOA --DET (32) , HOU (30),  JAX (31).  The other 3 defenses were against the Packers twice (17) and the Vikes (18).  Funny how this bit of important info slipped through the cracks too, huh.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/team-defense/2020

3) Let's look at the film starting with the first game from their arbitrary 6 game cut-off.

Week 12 vs Packers; Bears first offensive play of the game.......

 

Well damn, that certainly didn't take long to find an example of how poorly he played last year did it?   For those who don't know, watch the left tackle #72....that's Leno.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by JAF-N72EX

[JAF-N72EX]

10 hours ago, .Buzz said:

Leno's definitely not "good" but I'd say when comparing him to most LTs he probably sits in that average tier and definitely better than a solid handful of teams trot out there. Could do a whole hell of a lot worse. Not sure assuming Jenkins steps in and provides that (with Leno's ability to stay on the field) is an easy ask.

 

9 hours ago, TankWilliams said:

Thats a fair assessment for his career until last year.  There was a fairly significant drop off from the average play that he had, he was bad last year.  Certainly no longer worth the contract that he was getting.

Leno's been a solid LT for a long time but his play has diminished more and more in these last 2 years.  In 2016 he was good. In 2017 he struggled (not all his fault tho).  In 2018 he was great. In 2019, he was very sporadic.

In 2020, he wasn't awful but was well below average and clearly the weakest link on the entire OL.  Even when the Bears OL were struggling with injuries/covid and had to start the likes of undrafted FA Alex Bars, undrafted FA Sam Mustipher, 7th RD pick rookie Hambright, former 1st rd bust Ifedi, and a terrible Rashad Coward......Leno was still the weakest link (save for Coward--someone please find this man a new job).

 

[MonserinNC]

9 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Took on a $5.1 million dead cap hit to cut a starting quality LT

lmao

I approve of this move 100%

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-top-25-offensive-tackles-2020-nfl-season

I dont think that PFF is real PFF, alson the move saves us 9 mil

[MonserinNC]

5 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Proof positive of how terrible pff is.  Watch the tape and come tell me that Leno was a top 5 LT.  Dude spent more time picking himself up off the ground, than a pro wrestler at an mma tournament.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-top-25-offensive-tackles-2020-nfl-season

They did that thing where started a PFF underscore account, it saves us 9 million and no way he was top 5

We saw the Bears line play....this is not even hard haha.....you think our line played like that with the top 5 LT in the league??

[Broncofan]

7 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

 

But nevertheless, lets break this down.

1) They post the "last 6 games" but ignore the other 10?  Funny how they left that out though.  That's an immediate red flag right there.

2) 3 of the defenses the Bears faced during the 6 game stretch all finished the season last in DVOA --DET (32) , HOU (30),  JAX (31).  The other 3 defenses were against the Packers twice (17) and the Vikes (18).  Funny how this bit of important info slipped through the cracks too, huh.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/team-defense/2020

It's been mentioned so many times, but it bears repeating - one of PFF's biggest flaws (if not the biggest) formula-wise is that it doesn't factor in level of opposition when rating players.    Being the 5th-best T is a subjective analysis given PFF's methodology - but the theme that is always never mentioned is they assume every opposing player is equal.    So doing 6-game, 3-game, even 1-season looks, always needs context.    It's how you get a fluke season from guys like Case Keenum (32nd most difficult schedule for QB's as the MIN QB in 2017).

Still, Leno's not an awful player - but he's likely not worth 9M, and his career curve raises the risk of further decline.    But that cap hit is also the key part of the equation - if he signs for the vet min, on a good OL, he's probably going to be league-average, maybe better if the LG-LT unit develops cohesion.   For LT-desperate teams, that's probably more than OK.   Just at 9M,  it's not a difficult decision for Chicago in a vacuum.    Still, the OL has a lot of transition, and even with drafting Jenkins, it's going to be tough to fix it all in 1 year.    But cap management matters.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Broncofan

[ET80]

10 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

So much is wrong is here. I Seriously don't even know where to start with this post.  

1)  The Bears saved 9M by cutting him since he was designated as a June 1st cut.

https://overthecap.com/player/charles-leno-jr/3185/

This means they released him now but he won't officially be off the books until June 1st. This is doing him a solid and it works out for both ends. The Bears could wait until after June 1st to cut him and save 9M but that gives Leno even less options to find a new home. The Bears save 9M AND Leno still has time to find plenty of options.

2) The fact people still find PFF credible after all these years is shocking to me, but I digress b/c I'm done trying to explain to people how terrible they are.

 

3)  Last 6 games lol.  This is PFFs obvious attempt to garner views and clicks by using an arbitrary cut-off and you fell for it lol.  What's worse it is that this was probably the best they could up with during their poor attempt at a quick attention grab. 

But nevertheless, lets break this down.

1) They post the "last 6 games" but ignore the other 10?  Funny how they left that out though.  That's an immediate red flag right there.

2) 3 of the defenses the Bears faced during the 6 game stretch all finished the season last in DVOA --DET (32) , HOU (30),  JAX (31).  The other 3 defenses were against the Packers twice (17) and the Vikes (18).  Funny how this bit of important info slipped through the cracks too, huh.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/team-defense/2020

3) Let's look at the film starting with the first game from their arbitrary 6 game cut-off.

Week 12 vs Packers; Bears first offensive play of the game.......

 

Well damn, that certainly didn't take long to find an example of how poorly he played last year did it?   For those who don't know, watch the left tackle #72....that's Leno.

 

I'm not a huge fan of breakdowns with people trying to use gif footage, but this is the rare exception. Good information, good visuals to boot.

I can concede that Leno is bad, but my concern is throwing a rookie RT to play LT, the most important position along the OL... all while breaking in a rookie QB.

If Nick Foles or Andy Dalton gets the nod while this is sorted out, I'm indifferent - couldn't care less if those two get beaten into a bloody pulp. The object of the game for Chicago needs to be to protect Justin Fields.

[JAF-N72EX]

On 5/4/2021 at 9:33 AM, Broncofan said:

It's been mentioned so many times, but it bears repeating - one of PFF's biggest flaws (if not the biggest) formula-wise is that it doesn't factor in level of opposition when rating players.    Being the 5th-best T is a subjective analysis given PFF's methodology - but the theme that is always never mentioned is they assume every opposing player is equal.    So doing 6-game, 3-game, even 1-season looks, always needs context.    It's how you get a fluke season from guys like Case Keenum (32nd most difficult schedule for QB's as the MIN QB in 2017).

Absolutely.  Trubisky vs TB in 2018 and the defenses he played against last year when Foles got benched are another example. 

The level of competition means just as much as a team/player performance does since they're all intertwined and that should always be taken into consideration IMO, and PFF doesn't do this--among other things.  

I look at it like this, if the best team in the league is playing the worst team and blows them out by 40 I'm not sitting there going "well look at who they played". Instead I'm going " if they truly are the best team in the league then they beat em the way they should have".  Now if they struggle to eek out the win, then it's worth noting.

And it's no different for players either.  If a WR is being shadowed by one of the best corners/pass defenses and puts up crazy numbers then he deserves his flowers for sure. But if said WR is only putting up crazy numbers against bad defenses w/ bad corners who shouldn't be starting and struggles against good corners/defenses then it's also worth noting. As you said, context matters. And again, competition should always play a factor.

But again, I digress. I've spent years trying to get these points across about PFF and it seems to fall on deaf ears. The fact is, most fans are fickle and are not subjective, and will believe what they want as long as it fits their narrative at the time. (I'm not talking about you, just in general is all)

On 5/4/2021 at 9:33 AM, Broncofan said:

Still, Leno's not an awful player - but he's likely not worth 9M, and his career curve raises the risk of further decline.    But that cap hit is also the key part of the equation - if he signs for the vet min, on a good OL, he's probably going to be league-average, maybe better if the LG-LT unit develops cohesion.   For LT-desperate teams, that's probably more than OK.   Just at 9M,  it's not a difficult decision for Chicago in a vacuum.    Still, the OL has a lot of transition, and even with drafting Jenkins, it's going to be tough to fix it all in 1 year.    But cap management matters.

Leno played poorly last year and the trajectory of his career appears to be heading in the wrong direction, but he is def not an "awful player" by any means. I'm not a reactionary fan where if a player has 1 down year they are suddenly terrible. I don't work that way, personally. Alot of players have down years but doesn't mean THAT's who they are. Alot of factors go into it. 

You could do much worse at T than Leno (think Bolles before the Munchek magic since you're a Broncos fan). And just play a bit of devil's advocate here, let's not forget the difficulties of last offseason programs due to COVID either which could've played a part in his poor performance last year.  I don't know of that's the case, but it could be. What I've seen in the last 2 years is a guy whose biggest strengths were utilizing his upper body strength and technique to try to bully defenders but somewhere along the line his biggest strength wasn't there anymore and that's my concern  about him moving forward.

For the Bears it makes sense to let him go though. They need the cap and they feel good about a replacement they had high hopes for but probably didn't see it as a realistic option at the time after trading up Fields. So when he was there...they took a shot. A shot who is younger and comes at a cheaper rate--the definition of a cap casualty after the fact. 

 As I said, he was great in 2018, tapered off in 2019, and struggled alot last year.  But he's still only 29 IRRC (which is young for a OL),  he's reliable (and availability is very underrated), by all accounts he's a great locker room guy, he's very humble, very teachable, he's not complacent, and appears to have a strong will to learn and continue to get better.  You gotta remember, this man went from being a late 7th round pick to being a very solid OT(and top-OT at his peak) for years while also having 4 or 5 different OL coaches.  

Putting him with the Broncos with two(?) of his former coaches along with Munchek would be a great fit and the best situation for him and the team.

 

[JAF-N72EX]

On 5/4/2021 at 12:13 PM, ET80 said:

I'm not a huge fan of breakdowns with people trying to use gif footage, but this is the rare exception. Good information, good visuals to boot.

I can concede that Leno is bad, but my concern is throwing a rookie RT to play LT, the most important position along the OL... all while breaking in a rookie QB.

If Nick Foles or Andy Dalton gets the nod while this is sorted out, I'm indifferent - couldn't care less if those two get beaten into a bloody pulp. The object of the game for Chicago needs to be to protect Justin Fields.

I disagree with LT being the most important position on OL anymore.  That was true 10-20 years ago but the game has changed.  These days you need 2 good OTs. We're no longer in a era where 95% of Qbs are statutes in the pocket and defenses are only looking for left DEs in 4-3 defenses and left edge rushers in the 3-4 to protect the "blindside". The game has changed and schemes have changed. 

QBs' have evovled and become more agile and versatile which has made it much too easy to counter this 'one-side attack' approach.  And at the same time, the front-7 has equally made adjustments to counter this through scheme and by players becoming more than just thumpers and being more versatile so can be used anywhere on the line. For example, Mack lined up on the right side for the majority of his snaps last year. What good does it do to have an elite tackle playing the left side against him?

Sorry, I took a small part of your post and ran with it that nothing to do the original point.  I just felt obligated to address it for some reason. LOL.

ANYHOW, but back to your main point. Overall, I understand your concern for 2021 though. A rookie QB with a rookie tackle while both are still working thru learning curves doesn't necessarily scream immediate success to common sense.  But man, as a Bears fan, if all I have to do is endure one more bad-mediocre year while certain key players get up to speed to finally enjoy 10 years worth of success at QB then sign me up right now and take all of my money and assets too while your at it.  Hell, I may even be willing to throw in one of my kids just to sweeten the deal.

As far as if they sit Fields or not. I'm with you. In my perfect world, I would sit him this year and roll with Dalton and take the losses in 2021 for the betterment of the future.  But unfortunately, I really don't see it playing out that way.  I think Dalton starts the season but the leash is very short and they bring in Fields at the first sign of trouble.

All that said though, the Bears are also in a peculiar situation too since this year may also be their last chance at a title for a couple of years since the defense is going to need to be retooled in 2022.  Mack will be 31, Hicks will be 33, Trevathan will be 32 and has been solid but iffy at best in coverage, and we (foolishly) released our best CB in Fuller.

So if you're a Coach.  Do you start the rookie QB who gives you the best chance in 2021 while the team still has it's best chance at winning a title and the risk of getting said rookie QB killed and possibly ruining yet another QB?  Or do you start Dalton knowing the team isn't much better off with him than they were with Mitch/Foles and miss out on the last chance of winning a title THIS year, and not throw said rookie into the fire and risk the future while also accepting the fact that it may take a couple more years build around him?

[Uncle Buck]

On 5/3/2021 at 11:09 PM, SkippyX said:

Can anyone explain why the Bears line was pretty good run/pass in weeks 1-3 and hot garbage in 4-10 and good again in 12-17?

I can't remember ever seeing this before. You can see it like the 2014 Eagles when they started banged up and jelled by October or when injuries take guys out for the year but the huge dip in the middle is pretty rare.

2020 Bears rushing yards per game 

• 1-3 was about 138
• 4-10 was about 52
• 12-17 was about 144

I get that Tampa, Indy, Rams, and Saints were in the middle but they ran for 41 against the Vikings and then 199 against them 34 days later.

 

I would guess that most of the bad tape on Leno came from weeks 4-10.

All-Pro MLB Eric Kendricks was injured for about 5-6 weeks last year.  That could have been a big part of the difference.

[HTTRDynasty]