Brady vs Jordan for 2nd greatest North American Athlete of all-time

[lancerman]

55 minutes ago, SBLIII said:

It is. But sometimes hockey peaks are over sooner than in other sports and it shows it's really hard to win in multiple places. The Oilers had a much better supporting cast with several hall of famers.

Also hockey really isn't a sport where a mega star has as much of an impact as an NBA star or an NFL QB. 

Gretzky only has 4 and as you said his team was loaded regardless and they won right after he left. Then Bobby Orr only has 2. Mario only has 2. And then Howe has 4. And all those guys had very stacked teams when they did it. 

[Flounch]

On 5/13/2021 at 12:23 AM, checkcola said:

All I know is Brady won without the Pats while Jordan never won without the Bulls.  

But did Brady won without cheating ? 

[SBLIII]

7 minutes ago, Flounch said:

But did Brady won without cheating ? 

He did.

[7DnBrnc53]

1 hour ago, SBLIII said:

He did.

How do you know?

[Blackstar12]

Brady commands so much respect defenders were too afraid to touch him. 😎

[WheatieMan]

On 5/12/2021 at 9:49 AM, seminoles1 said:

The 90s and early 2000s were garbage.

There is more talent now than there ever has been before, and MUCH more talent than the 90s.

I don’t buy it. More talent today??? Perhaps, but back then it was dispersed talent. Shaq was on an island in Orlando with an injured Penny. Reggie was still Reggie on an insanely deep but always overachieving Pacer team. The Knicks were a threat. Mourning and Timmy. You just didn’t have a super team coalesce. By no means was the league less talented than the 80’s. Had Reggie and Ewing been on the same team no way in hell Jordan beats them every year. Or Shaq and Malone. The concept of a super team just wasn’t there and hadn’t been there since the Laker teams in the early 80’s.

Edited May 15, 2021 by WheatieMan

[seminoles1]

16 minutes ago, WheatieMan said:

I don’t buy it. More talent today??? Perhaps, but back then it was dispersed talent. Shaq was on an island in Orlando with an injured Penny. Reggie was still Reggie on an insanely deep but always overachieving Pacer team. The Knicks were a threat. Mourning and Timmy. You just didn’t have a super team coalesce. By no means was the league less talented than the 80’s. Had Reggie and Ewing been on the same team no way in hell Jordan beats them every year. Or Shaq and Malone. The concept of a super team just wasn’t there and hadn’t been there since the Laker teams in the early 80’s.

Superteams have always existed. Enough of this nonsense. The Warriors took it to a new extreme with Durant, but nothing outside of those 3 seasons is any different than the league at any other time.

Dispersed talent? There are multiple All-Star talents on 2/3 of the teams right now. You have teams hovering around .500 with multiple All-Stars because the league is so talented now. Stop it.

[WheatieMan]

22 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

Superteams have always existed. Enough of this nonsense. The Warriors took it to a new extreme with Durant, but nothing outside of those 3 seasons is any different than the league at any other time.

Dispersed talent? There are multiple All-Star talents on 2/3 of the teams right now. You have teams hovering around .500 with multiple All-Stars because the league is so talented now. Stop it.

Super teams come and go. And I’d insist that the Bulls team wasn’t a Super team in any of those runs. Pippen was good in 94’ but he was motivated and he would have never got to an NBA finals alone unless he Butlered it on a fluke year. And likewise the Bulls did not have to face a super team. The Lakers with Kobe and Gasol, I don’t consider that Super. The Celtics were old and injured and couldn’t go back to back after dismantling the Lakers the year prior. Early 00’ Lakers were Super.

[seminoles1]

1 hour ago, WheatieMan said:

Super teams come and go. And I’d insist that the Bulls team wasn’t a Super team in any of those runs. Pippen was good in 94’ but he was motivated and he would have never got to an NBA finals alone unless he Butlered it on a fluke year. And likewise the Bulls did not have to face a super team. The Lakers with Kobe and Gasol, I don’t consider that Super. The Celtics were old and injured and couldn’t go back to back after dismantling the Lakers the year prior. Early 00’ Lakers were Super.

Pippen made 7 All-NBA teams (1st team 3x, 2nd team 2x, 3rd team 2x). He was the premier SF of the decade.

Pippen led the Bulls to a 55-27 record alone and was a bad call away from leading them to the ECF...though I will grant his little pity party he threw himself when the last play wasn't called for him was an awful look and inexcusable.

[7DnBrnc53]

14 hours ago, WheatieMan said:

Early 00’ Lakers were Super.

What? That wasn't a super team. They just had Shaq, Kobe, and a collection of stiffs. They won on the backs of the officials, and because the 2000 Blazers and 02 Kings choked.

[lancerman]

1 minute ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

What? That wasn't a super team. They just had Shaq, Kobe, and a collection of stiffs. They won on the backs of the officials, and because the 2000 Blazers and 02 Kings choked.

You could legitimately argue that Shaq was the best player in the league at the time and a stud who was coming into his own as clearly the future best player in the league as the number 2. That's about as dominant a one two combo we've ever seen. Then you had Fisher who was a very solid piece and a strong role player for the team. Rick Fox also was in a similar vein. Both weren't stars or anything but they were the type of role players you wanted on a team that already had the dynamic pieces. Glen Rice was also there for a year and he was pretty solid. No they didn't have a huge third piece like we've seen with the Celtics, Heat, and Warriorsover the last 15 years, but they had the best one and two of probably any super team and very good support.

[lancerman]

13 hours ago, seminoles1 said:

Pippen made 7 All-NBA teams (1st team 3x, 2nd team 2x, 3rd team 2x). He was the premier SF of the decade.

Pippen led the Bulls to a 55-27 record alone and was a bad call away from leading them to the ECF...though I will grant his little pity party he threw himself when the last play wasn't called for him was an awful look and inexcusable.

If the first 3 titles weren't a super team, the last 3 where they had Rodman and he was first team all defense and the rebounding leader that entire run certainly were. 

[seminoles1]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

If the first 3 titles weren't a super team, the last 3 where they had Rodman and he was first team all defense and the rebounding leader that entire run certainly were. 

They had 3 All-Stars for the first 3-peat.

[WheatieMan]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

If the first 3 titles weren't a super team, the last 3 where they had Rodman and he was first team all defense and the rebounding leader that entire run certainly were. 

When I think Super I think two top 3-5 players on the same team. Rodman wasn’t in that class at that point, but he fit what the Bulls wanted to do at the time. Was Pippen still a top 5 player at that point? His numbers fell off a bit at the back end, especially at the tail end of 98’. It was one of the best 1-2s for sure, but I’d say it was more of a Kobe Pao combo. Or Lebron/AD. I don’t know if Pao or AD end up on the HoF. Certainly the 00’ Lakers didn’t have a trifecta, but I think Kobe was probably top 5 at that point behind A.I, Duncan, Webber. These days we view it as the third piece being the missing ingredient. You’d be hard pressed finding three HoFers on the same team in their primes. You can argue the Bulls had that in 96-98. The Spurs may have had three HoFers from 03-2014. It’s hard pressed finding three prime Bona Fiers on the same team from that 90-00’ era.

Edited May 15, 2021 by WheatieMan

[seminoles1]

1 hour ago, WheatieMan said:

When I think Super I think two top 3-5 players on the same team. Rodman wasn’t in that class at that point, but he fit what the Bulls wanted to do at the time. Was Pippen still a top 5 player at that point? His numbers fell off a bit at the back end, especially at the tail end of 98’. It was one of the best 1-2s for sure, but I’d say it was more of a Kobe Pao combo. Or Lebron/AD. I don’t know if Pao or AD end up on the HoF. Certainly the 00’ Lakers didn’t have a trifecta, but I think Kobe was probably top 5 at that point behind A.I, Duncan, Webber. These days we view it as the third piece being the missing ingredient. You’d be hard pressed finding three HoFers on the same team in their primes. You can argue the Bulls had that in 96-98. The Spurs may have had three HoFers from 03-2014. It’s hard pressed finding three prime Bona Fiers on the same team from that 90-00’ era.

Pau and AD are definitely making the Hall of Fame. Without question.

Who were the 3 Hall of Famers for the Lakers last year? What about the Raptors in 2019?

Bosh will be a Hall of Famer, but no one can argue he was actually that much more important or integral than Horace Grant was to the first 3-peat Bulls. Hell, Wade after the first year with LeBron wasn't even close to a top 5 player or anywhere near his prime. He had his moments in the playoffs, but that was it. He looked crippled as often as he looked like a superstar between 2013-14. Bosh only averaged 17-7 in their 2 title seasons.

Brooklyn is the only argument for a superteam right now.