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Brady vs Jordan for 2nd greatest North American Athlete of all-time


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13 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Lance Armstrong gets no love.

I mean........

 

He was striped of all his awards. 

Now that I mentioned his awards being striped, did they just walked in his house with security and take all his of his awards when that happened? Got to be the most embarrassing way for him if so...

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If we are talking about Brady v Jordan then Im clearly going with Jordan. Why? Jordan dominated his sport. He won 6 titles and he took 2 yrs off which opened the door for others to win. Im convinced if Jordan didnt take 2yrs off the Bulls wouldve won 8 straight titles plus they couldve kept on winning had the team not split after the 1998 season. Plus Jordan never lost in the Finals (6-0). Brady lost a few times. He got beat by Eli twice and Foles once. Even when the Pats had an undefeated regular season Brady couldnt finish the job with a championship. Jordan led the Bulls to a (72-10) season which at the time was the best record in NBA history and he led the team a championship that season. The Warriors eventually top that with a (73-9) season but even they couldnt finish the job with a championship that season. So again if I had to choose between Jordan and Brady its easy for me. Im going with Jordan. 

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I fully appreciate the greatness of the Great One. You can go on forever about his stats. (more assists than anyone else has points to start)

He won 4 titles to Jordan's 6. Babe and Brady each won 7 on multiple teams.

Gretzky's old team won a title 2 years after he left with the same core. It took Babe's old team 86 years.

Several of Gretzgy's Oilers teammates don't have 5 cups, they have 6 to his 4.

He was the best of them, as Messier would tell you himself but the divide between Ruth and whoever would be 2nd is much greater than say Gretzky and Lemieux or Orr.

PPG is 1.921 Gretzky to 1.883 Lemieux

Babe is probably still one of the 25 best pitchers in baseball.

  • He went 89-46 with a 2.19 ERA as a Red Sox pitcher. His 2.277 career ERA is 17th best all-time.
  • He was 3-0 with an 0.87 ERA as a Red Sox WS pitcher.

He is still the best hitter. (Still #1 in OPS ahead of Ted Williams)

Babe would be #1 in WAR if you exclude Universal Soldier dosing neck-growing Barry Bonds.

  • He is officially 2nd and 162.7 to 162.1 (Bonds did this with 483 more games and on more drugs than the 1980 East German Olympic weightlifting team)

Babe was 1st in OPS for 13 different seasons. (Trout has done this 5 times for comparison)

  • Bonds did this 9 times, 5 legit and 4 on 'roids
  • Aaron did this 3 times.

He is #2 in RBIs because Hank Aaron lasted long enough, did not start as a pitcher, and played in a league with more games per year.

  • Aaron had 3300 more at bats to get 83 more RBI.
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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, stl4life07 said:

If we are talking about Brady v Jordan then Im clearly going with Jordan. Why? Jordan dominated his sport. He won 6 titles and he took 2 yrs off which opened the door for others to win. Im convinced if Jordan didnt take 2yrs off the Bulls wouldve won 8 straight titles plus they couldve kept on winning had the team not split after the 1998 season. Plus Jordan never lost in the Finals (6-0). Brady lost a few times. He got beat by Eli twice and Foles once. Even when the Pats had an undefeated regular season Brady couldnt finish the job with a championship. Jordan led the Bulls to a (72-10) season which at the time was the best record in NBA history and he led the team a championship that season. The Warriors eventually top that with a (73-9) season but even they couldnt finish the job with a championship that season. So again if I had to choose between Jordan and Brady its easy for me. Im going with Jordan. 

You get zero credit for taking years off like Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, or Michael Jordan.

  • Woulda coulda shoulda is not a valid argument for greatness.
  • Now if you are banned for not supporting a war or out with cancer or a debilitating back injury, that's different.
  • Ted Williams fighting the Nazis? Full credit!
  • If you'd rather be in the movies or take your ball and go home or play golf then too bad.
    • I know that Brown went to Hollywood partly because the NFL was cheap and basically owned players back then so asterisk there.

 

Jordan got his butt kicked by the Pistons and Celtics for years, it just happened before the finals.

  • It took him 6 seasons just to get to the conference finals. Brady had 3 rings at that point.
  • It took him 8 years to win a title.
  • He did not play baseball for 2 years, he came back for 17 games and the playoffs and was not good enough in 1995.
    • He was not suspended for imaginary ball deflation He controlled his return and limitations that season, That's 100% on him.
      • He did not care about basketball enough to be ready enough to win that year. (not very GoaT-like)

If you want to say Jordan was better through age 34, then I agree. Brady's greatness has continued to 43 and is not stopping.

  • This clearly puts him ahead of Jordan who was greedy or disinterested or whatever at age 35 and a shell of himself at 38.
  • He did put up numbers in another professional sport at age 30 and parts of 31 and they were pathetic. He chose to do that.
Edited by SkippyX
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Interesting topic. I don't think Brady was the best player on his team for the first three rings. He has two Super Bowl wins against my Rams with having scored a whopping 13 offensive points each time. That's not to say Brady didn't make plays - but does show how he's performed poorly and still won titles.

He's definitely the GOAT of the NFL, but in splitting hairs between him and Jordan, I'd give the edge to Jordan. While QB is the most important position, a basketball player still has more impact since the play both offense and defense, and Jordan was an elite defender.

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The other thing is the NBA is almost inevitable.

The best team almost always wins and it only takes about 3 really good players (or 2 stars and a very good role guy) to have the best team.

Look at the finals matchups during Jordan's Bulls career:

1 vs 1
1 vs 2
1 vs 1
1 vs 2
1 vs 1
1 vs 3
1* vs 3
1* vs 1
2* vs 1
2 vs 2
1 vs 6(repeat champs)
1* vs 1
1* vs 1
1* vs 1

Be on the best team in your conference and you pretty much get to the finals.

  • 20 of 28 seeds were 1  (.714)
  • 24 of 28 were 1 or 2 seeds  (.857)

 

So getting him Scotty Pippen and a roster of talented players is a major reason why Jordan won so much.

They still had to perform in those playoffs but the odds were heavily in their favor.

 

Now lets look at the Super Bowl during Brady's career

3 vs 1
2* vs 1
2 vs 1
1* vs 3
2* vs 1
6 vs 1
3 vs 1
5 vs 1^
2 vs 4
1 vs 1
6 vs 2
4 vs 1*
4 vs 2
1 vs 1
1* vs 1
1 vs 1
1* vs 2
1 vs 1*
2* vs 2
2 vs 1
5 vs 1

22 of 42 teams were 1 seeds.  (.524)

31 of 42 teams were 1 or 2 seeds (.738)

So its clearly easier to win (and much easier to reach the finals) when you have the talent.

 

Next, the NFL is single elimination format so you can lose on a helmet catch or a missed chip shot FG and you are done.

  • Your 15-1 team can have a bad day against a 10-6 team and you are out.
  • A 7-9 team can Beast Quake you out.

The 1993 Bulls were down 2-0 to the Knicks, but they got 7 tries to win 4 so talent won out.

None of this means Jordan was not awesome and the basketball GoaT. Its just much easier to win in basketball.

As anyone in Philly can tell you about Wilt vs Russell. Who had the best team every year?

  • Its such an amazing feat to win 7 titles in 8 years with 4 HoF players on the floor out of 5 players! 
    • 70s Steelers accomplishment > 60s Celtics accomplishment. The difficulty level is not even close.

 

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Jordan played 15 seasons and made it to 6 finals.

Brady has played 21 seasons (or 19 if you don't count backup and injury) and made it to 10 finals in a league where its much more difficult to get there..

This is not even remotely close.

BTW, Magic is the best at this in modern basketball with 9 finals in 13 seasons (won 5)

  • LeBron is at 9 in 17+********  multiple asterisks for 10 years of Super Team construction

 

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Posted (edited)

Lol brady won with a different organization and coaching staff.

Mike never won without phil/bulls.

 Gretzky didn’t win as much as Brady either. 

Edited by CP3MVP
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12 hours ago, NeptunePenguins said:

We all know Gretzky is the greatest athlete of all-time but has Brady pass Michael Jordan after getting his 7th?

found the Canadian

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9 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Jordan would still win.

If that‘s the only criteria, then surely Biles/Phelps/Bolt>the field. Could probably throw Serena, and Tiger/Nicklaus in there too.

EDIT: No Bolt, for North American.

Jamaica is part of North America

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Gretzky was the most dominant athlete of all time. His records will never be touched and the 2nd best person to him is not memorable. There's no argument who the best Hockey player ever is.

That's not "greatest". There's an off-court/off-field aspect to being an athlete that requires the achievements, but personality matters. And for that, it's 1. Jordan 2. Brady/LeBron.

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In this three way comparison, which I still reject because team sports, it breaks down like this. 

Gretzky has the best stats relative to his peers. Brady accomplished the most accolades in his sport. Jordan had the most dominant peak stretch. In North America Brady and Jordan are clearly the most known. Globally Jordan is the most known. If you want to factor those aspects notoriety hurts Gretzky the most. 

That said, there is very little debate that Gretzky is the best hockey player.... but hockey isn't as popular and alot of the people don't know guys like Howe and Orr so statistics are what people look at. Brady at this point is pretty unanimously considered the best QB as his resume just overwhelms everyone else. Jordan is still the consensus GOAT basketball player... but funnily enough he has the least sturdy claim to GOAT of his sport because he never did completely escape Kareem and Wilt comparisons and Lebron has also been a debate over the last 10 years. 

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