NYRaider Posted October 23, 2021 Author Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I agree that he should be very good but is the value there to take a 1T in the mid teens/ early 20's of the 1st round? He will be a space eater, who commands a double team, which has value but will he be able to rush the passer? That is what separates good from elite. My point is can similar value be obtained later in the draft? While Davis may be a superior talent he has to be more than a space eater who excels in stuffing the run if you're going to spend a 1st on him. There's a reason Jordan Davis is in the Heisman conversation as a NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, NYRaider said: There's a reason Jordan Davis is in the Heisman conversation as a NT. Post all of the highlight videos you want but that doesn't answer my question. He appears to be a very good player but is their value in drafting a run stuffer, who commands a double team but has averaged 1.5 sacks over his 4 seasons in Georgia in the middle of round 1? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 23, 2021 Author Share Posted October 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Post all of the highlight videos you want but that doesn't answer my question. He appears to be a very good player but is their value in drafting a run stuffer, who commands a double team but has averaged 1.5 sacks over his 4 seasons in Georgia in the middle of round 1? Veta Vea didn't have great sack production in college and hasn't had great sack production in the NFL. Has that stopped him from being an impactful player for the Bucs or a bad pick? We're 25th against the run this season and were 24th against the running last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBXISBXVSBXVIII Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: There's a reason Jordan Davis is in the Heisman conversation as a NT. I’d rather have Kayvon Thibodeaux. Dude is a beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, NYRaider said: Veta Vea didn't have great sack production in college and hasn't had great sack production in the NFL. Has that stopped him from being an impactful player for the Bucs or a bad pick? We're 25th against the run this season and were 24th against the running last year. Impactful is subjective. NT is one of the least impactful/ valuable positions in the NFL. How many NT's in the NFL pose mid round 1 draft value? Maybe two, Via and Clark and Clark is more of a NT/3T hybrid as he weighs 315. If you put a true NT like Via on a terrible D like the Lions his impact is minimal as he can't finish and bring the QB down from up the middle That reinforces my point that NT is one of the least impactful positions in the NFL. \ Give me a stud CB, 3T, MLB, DE, OLB any day of the week over a NT. Edited October 24, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 I'm assuming Stingly is gone by the time we pick but if Ahmad Gardner is on the board he should be in strong consideration. He's a bit raw but he has the physical tools to be a shutdown CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 3 hours ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said: I’d rather have Kayvon Thibodeaux. Dude is a beast. Are we going to have a top 3 pick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Give me a stud CB, 3T, MLB, DE, OLB any day of the week over a NT. How many CBs have we taken in the first round over the years? How many have worked out? What stud 3T's are going to be there for us to pick in the 1st round? How many elite LB were high first round picks, almost none. Obviously you want to target premium positions like CB, Edge, OT in the 1st round but you also have to go BPA. Our run defense has been an issue for the last two seasons and Davis would immediately make a huge impact for us there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Impactful is subjective. NT is one of the least impactful/ valuable positions in the NFL. I'd also disagree with that. The Buccaneers having Vea is one of the biggest reasons their impossible to run against. The Bengals adding DJ Reeder is one of the biggest reasons their defense has turned around. The Panthers adding Derrick Brown is one of the biggest reasons their defense has turned around. Everyone here acted like bringing Hankins back was going to make our run defense better somehow and it got even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, NYRaider said: How many CBs have we taken in the first round over the years? How many have worked out? What stud 3T's are going to be there for us to pick in the 1st round? How many elite LB were high first round picks, almost none. Obviously you want to target premium positions like CB, Edge, OT in the 1st round but you also have to go BPA. Our run defense has been an issue for the last two seasons and Davis would immediately make a huge impact for us there. Because we have missed on CB in years past means we shouldn't draft one now? That makes no sense. Last years draft has three very promising CB's drafted early. Horn, Surtain and Diggs. Some of the best in football were early 1st round picks. Ramsey, Humphrey, Lattimore, Ward to name a few. LB's who were drafted early over the last few years that appear to be very good are White, Smith Parsons, Leonard and Watt. How many true NT's have been taken early that would pose good value in the middle of the 1st round? I agree with you that Davis appears to be a very good talent, I just don't think the value is there for a NT who cant rush the passer. I would much rather go after a lockdown #1 CB. Edited October 24, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Last years draft has three very promising CB's drafted early. Horn, Surtain and Diggs. Diggs is his second season, the INT's are impressive but he gets beat a lot. Did you see Surtain shutting down Ruggs last week? Horn has played like 3 games and is now on IR. You make it seem as though you can just find elite players whenever you want, that's not how the draft works. Hobbs and Hayward have been our two best CB's this season, we drafted one in the 5th and signed the other in free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Because we have missed on CB in years past means we shouldn't draft one now? That makes no sense. Last years draft has three very promising CB's drafted early. Horn, Surtain and Diggs. Some of the best in football were early 1st round picks. Ramsey, Humphrey, Lattimore, Ward to name a few. LB's who were drafted early over the last few years that appear to be very good are White, Smith Parsons, Leonard and Watt. How many true NT's have been taken early that would pose good value in the middle of the 1st round? I agree with you that Davis appears to be a very good talent, I just don't think the value is there for a NT who cant rush the passer. I would much rather go after a lockdown #1 CB. The draft is hit or miss regardless of who you're picking and where. For every Ramsey there's an Okudah, Hayden, Conley. It's pretty rare that NT's go high in the draft because if they do it's typically because they flash special potential like Veta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: The draft is hit or miss regardless of who you're picking and where. For every Ramsey there's an Okudah, Hayden, Conley. It's pretty rare that NT's go high in the draft because if they do it's typically because they flash special potential like Veta. It's rare that true NT's go early because they are of low positional value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 8 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: It's rare that true NT's go early because they are of low positional value. Same can be said for OG, do you think the Colts regret taking Nelson as high as they did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Same can be said for OG, do you think the Colts regret taking Nelson as high as they did? You do realize that all pro players players like Nelson are extremely rare and are exceptions to the rule. An OG is of higher positional value than a NT and impacts every offensive snap. Are you assuming that Davis is a three down NFL player and won't be taken off the field in passing situations? If the answer is no then you must question the value of two down run stuffing NT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.